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Countries the EU can do without
July 8, 2008
Not long ago, I spent some time with a Romanian socialist member of the European Parliament called Adrian Severin. He is an impressive figure. He is not only a former Romanian foreign minister (1996-97) but also - according to his official CV - the proud recipient of the “Man of the 20th Century Award”. This, in case you didn’t know, is a distinction conferred by the International Biographical Centre, which is something based in the English university city of Cambridge.
Severin was talking to me just after Irish voters said No to the European Union’s Lisbon treaty in their June 12 referendum. What he said has stuck in my mind ever since. “There are countries without which the EU cannot function, and countries without which it can,” he pronounced.
For example, he went on, the EU could do without Ireland, but not without France and the Netherlands (which, you’ll remember, voted No to the EU’s now abandoned constitutional treaty in 2005). And what was the difference between Ireland and the Netherlands? I asked. “Geography,” Severin replied.
I suppose he meant that Ireland is on the periphery of Europe and the Netherlands is, well, a bit closer to the centre. Anyway, he seemed very keen to teach the Irish a lesson or two about what it means to be a good European.
What about Romania itself, though? Is Romania, which joined the EU in January 2007, one of those countries the EU can do without, or cannot do without?
On July 23 we may get some answers to that question. That is the day when the European Commission is due to publish its long-awaited report into Romania’s efforts to meet EU standards on judicial reform and rooting out corruption in public life.
Last November Willem de Pauw, a Belgian prosecutor and adviser to the EU on Romanian affairs, wrote a report (dug up by the Economist magazine) that said: “Instead of progress in the fight against high-level corruption, Romania is presently regressing on all fronts in the fight against corruption.” De Pauw spoke of “the intense resistance of practically the whole political class of Romania against the anti-corruption effort”.
Next time Severin goes to Dublin and tells the Irish they’re a country the EU can do without, he might like to take along a copy of Willem de Pauw’s report.
France and Germany aren’t at the heart of Europe, in fact Switzerland is at the heart of Europe and the Swiss don’t want to be part of the European Union project, so where does that leave your argument.
The UK doesn’t want to be part of the EU.
So what would happen if the English speaking countries formed their own “Union” then the EU would be up the creak without a paddle without the UK and Ireland.
Ireland is closer to Boston than it is to Berlin, so it would make sense to create an English speaking Union.
Posted by: Daniel, Dublin | July 8th, 2008 at 2:45 pm | Report this commentThere is Countries that think that they are the “Center of Europe”,not only Geographically,and believes that to be the “Center of Europe” means to give orders to the “periphery” without asking his opinion:first of these countries is France.Unfortunately for them,NATO has performed wery well for 45 years,without France,and still is:their presence in Afghanistan is ridicolous,compared with their idea of importance (Grandeur) of themselves.Now they are organizing a NATO summit in Strasbourg,in 2009,to stress this funny concept.Let’s say NO to this trick:the center of gravity of Europe is shifting toward the Medirerranean and tha Middle East and,as always,they are tempting to force History to move where they want:we do not need all this,we just need to defend the West from terrorism,and understand the priorities in this fight:first of all,unity with USA.France(and Germany,less arrogantly but firmly) are tempting to divide Europe from America.Of course,as soon as they will understand their weakness,they will call the US back:an old trick that they did in Bosnia and Kosovo.This is the way they are the center of the Continent:at the first blow of wind,they show that that center of Gravity is in Washington.
Posted by: stefano de santis | July 8th, 2008 at 3:16 pm | Report this commentImagine a “Union” of, say, four countries with English as a common language, with a single currency, broadly similar laws, a parliamentary democracy… Yes, it could work.
But what about the neighbours?
Posted by: Central Scrutiniser | July 8th, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Report this commentInsulting the European Union by the ones that must defend it :
Thanks for letting us know about this Adrian Severin and his insulting remarks ,he does not understand what Europa is all about , what a shame ! no wonder the European Parliament has a lot of work to do , with insulting figures like this…. in next year elections we must make sure the garbage is taken out for pick-up!, the insulting and racist remarks of this politician go against everything the EU stands for, and he also insults many hard working and serious Romanians that i have known over the years, he is insulting his own country , now a young member of the EU, again what a shame !
what many voters in the EU want in their “EU Constitution-Treaty-Rule of Laws ” is clarity ,simplicity and honesty ,per example:
the energy crisis is number one issue, we had expected the self-important and self- obsessed Mr. “Photo-Op” Sarkozy to start installing solar panels and thermal concentrators on buildings all over France and Europe, with him with a hammer and screwdriver right in front, we expected him to lead crews of electricians ,plumbers and engineers installing wind and water turbines all over, digging Geothermal pipes to feed steam- electric-turbines,planting sugar cane , jathropa and rapeseeds to grow ethanol-biofuels,growing algae-seaweeds farms also for biofuels, and building thousands of greenhouses to grow organic vegetables and fruits year round from Southern Europe to the Arctic and helping the small and medium family farm ,but instead so far …..nothing ! and the rest of the political elite,so far…nothing either ! what a criminal shame !
this clearly shows that the 2.500 lobby’s in Brussels - Strassbourg as well as the thousands of advisers,lawyers and middle-men, foreign oil and gas speculator’s representatives,bankers and traders and their neocon Hedge-Funds , etc., are really having a poisonous effect on Policy.
so how can we , the EU Taxpayers that pay his salary and expenses, find out how much money,if any, this Severin gets from special interests groups, Lobby’s,advisers and others, how can we know ? and since he is honest, he must be more than eager to share all his financial information with his employers,the European Taxpayers, right,Mr.Severin?
next years elections demand a total clean-up, total, we must make Europa strong,honest,transparent and effective and with elected officials that want to make Europa better,healthier and Energy Independent.
Posted by: blogger | July 8th, 2008 at 8:53 pm | Report this commentWe need all countries to be part of the project but, of course, if several don’t want to, it’s their option.
Romania should become a member but maybe we want to go too fast. Strong institutions require a long time to consolidate and if the Romanian’s are not ready, they shouldn’t enter.
I think the Irish no, and many other cases, shows that the citizen’s can’t follow this pace because until now national interests have prevailed.
greetings from catalonia
Posted by: Anna | July 9th, 2008 at 12:57 pm | Report this commentPerhaps Britain, Canada and Australia should form their own Union and ditch the rest of them.
Posted by: thunar | July 9th, 2008 at 2:59 pm | Report this commentBrits, Canucks and Aussies understand each other and enjoy friendly banter over a few pints and a game of darts, a refreshing alternative to the “Tower of Babel and Babble” of the Eurocrats in Bruxelles.
Posted by: thunar | July 9th, 2008 at 3:42 pm | Report this commentEurocorrupts and euroskeptics, by Adrian Severin
Tony Barber expresses his perplexity at my opinion that, in building the project of the political Europe, geography counts. More precisely, his surprise comes from the comment that the respect shown for the Irish no to the Lisbon Treaty does not lie in blocking the European integration process until Ireland changes its opinion, but in the creation of a special status for this country, that affords it to reflect quietly on its destiny while the other EU members continue working. I added that, in Ireland’s case, comparing with the one of France or the Netherlands, we can act this way because, even in Ireland’s absence from the EU, the geopolitical coherence of the Union is kept.
In the UK, such ideas are truly hard to understand. For a European -not good or bad but simply a European- the EU is a union of States and citizens whose objective is to obtain its security and stability by reconciling European history with geography. For a British, Europe is a continent separated from the UK by the English Channel, abusively named by the European “Pas de Calais”. When there is fog on the channel, it is the continent which is isolated (sic!), in such a view. In a mentality of an isle conservative having still the nostalgia of the lost empire, geography is only an accessory of power. In the vision of a continental European, geography -a reality that includes demography and explains anthropology- is the basis of history or the variable on which history depends. Therefore, to place in harmony history, which is the fruit of chance, with geography, means coming up with an optimal balance between aspirations and possibilities, between continuity and discontinuity, between targets and resources, between stability and progress.
A country, even small, like the Netherlands, that has the largest European port and controls the exit to the Northern Sea of a fluvial artery that traverses the whole continent uniting the Rhine, the Main and the Danube, in order to terminate in Romania, at the Black Sea, with the third largest European port, Constanta, is essential for the European project. In comparison, with all due respect, a small and eccentric island, having a small market and few consumers, is not. This does not mean that someone rejects Ireland. Quite the contrary! Ireland has to be welcomed back anytime, in conformity with its free decision, assuming at the same time the consequences of this decision. As was declared by an Irish MEP in Brussels: “without Ireland, Europe would lose little; without Europe, Ireland would lose everything!”.
In face of such arguments, Mr Barber is asking himself if there aren’t some other criteria except geography that should indicate the countries without which the EU can manage. He finds in this sense Romania, suggesting that since it is a corrupt country it’s absence from the Union would be an asset as concerns the functioning of the European mechanisms (On Italy’s right-honorary Berlusconi, he remains silent, of course).
Obviously, corruption is a virus that gives the flue to the EU institutions. That is why the fight against corruption has to be a priority and the corrupt States must be quarantined. A particular aspect of the problem is that we haven’t found yet an anti-corruption vaccine in Europe. In spite of this fact, or, maybe, precisely because of that, British firms are crowding to come to Romania and British political leaders like the former prime minister Tony Blair made demarches to their corrupt Romanian homologues in order to facilitate the acquiring of Romanian firms by investors generous to UK parties’ budgets. Sometimes, you have the impression that those who protest against corruption in Romania are not the honest but those who, when competing with other corrupters, haven’t managed yet to corrupt Romanians.
In such circumstances, if we conclude that the EU can dispense itself of all the States in which corruption makes victims, we would risk having no more members.
In fact, those who ask us not to speak of a United Europe because we are corrupt, are afraid that the discussion on the significance of geography, respectively on the States that the EU can manage without, creates a dangerous precedent for those who stay in the Union just to have the possibility to block from within the consolidation of a potential European competitor. Today Ireland, tomorrow who knows…Corrupts should therefore shut up! If they want to be in the EU they have to accept the euro-skeptics!
Posted by: Adrian Severin | July 10th, 2008 at 7:50 am | Report this commentRomania and Britain(or Ireland) are not friends at all. Ireland and UK were the only EU countries to impose entry visas against Romania until 2007 and after that moment, Romanians and Bulgarians are the only EU citizens banned to work in the UK and Ireland.
Posted by: popescu | July 10th, 2008 at 11:44 am | Report this commentThe friendship works only when the Brits sell second-hand frigates to Romanians at an inflated price.
Politicians like Mr. Severin did nothing to secure that Romanians have the same rights like the rest of the EU citizens on the labor market.
As a member of the Social-Democrat Party in Romania, Mr.Severin is living in the most exclusive neighborhood in Bucharest(you can’t be a socialist leader in Romania without being millionaire).
Romanian citizens are not allowed to work in the Western Europe, there are almost no EU regional/structural funds to enter Romania.
Romania is not a de facto EU member. Who cares that the justice is corrupted and Mr. Severin and his colleagues don’t face justice for corruption?
If Romania is out of EU tomorrow the only difference will be that we will need visas again to enter the UK and Ireland.
Mr.Severin will continue to visit the UK using his diplomatic passport and will meet Lords trying to convince him to buy second-hand ships for hundreds of millions.
There is a common aspect about the Brits(and Irish) and the political establishment in Romania: both sides don’t give a … about simple Romanian citizens.
Two apples on the tree are watching the people down in the village. And one apple tells to the other^ I wonder how people can live such a life: they always fight with each other, revolt and destroy. When we, apples, come to power we will create a new better life…
Posted by: Tatyana | July 10th, 2008 at 11:46 am | Report this commentThe other apple turns and asks indignantly: “Who WE - red or green ones?”
I think there is no limits when you start to divide and classify.
Europe can do without Romania (or can “do away with it” for that matter) but it will deprive itself from her window to the Black Sea. Let’s not forget that this sea, not at all to be ignored, is a window itself to oil reach Azebaidjan and to fast growing countries such as Georgia and Ukraine (not to mention Europe’s only truly other great metropolis apart from London: Istanbul)
Thus it makes now geographic and economic good sense, that Romania since January 2007 is a full member of this European project stretching from the Baltic to the Mediterranean Seas, from the Black Sea to Gibraltar Strait.
Perhaps Mr. Severin was a bit smug when he -as representing a country that entered the EU just 18 months ago- peevishly dismissed Ireland as someone/something to be dumped out of Europe.
Perhaps Mr. Barber is of Irish descent and his ego was wounded.
Yet I find Braber’s lashing out at Mr. Severin quite a rude reaction and Mr. Severin’s answer above, an elegant setting of the accounts.
Posted by: CompayEE | July 10th, 2008 at 2:17 pm | Report this commentWell, Mr. Tony Parker, today I’ve seen what does simplification does to an idea: manipulation worthy of “The Sun”.
Anna, thunar, right you are.
blogger, you could try first to “hear” the other side’s opinion before making any judgement (in this case, Mr. Severin). However, I like the openness towards not instantly putting the blame on Romania and all Romanians. Mr. Parker couldn’t resist this temptation.
Mr. Severin, so you and everyone else know, I don’t PSD (Social-Democrat Party).
codexpolitic.us, think before leeching every tabloid-like article.
popescu could, instead, deserve Mr. Parker’s payment for this article, ’cause he saw the real implications of this silent war towards Romania and Bulgaria. Fortunately, he’s not the only one with the eyes wide open.
Tatyana, your fable should be told in every single minute to all our great leaders. Unfortunately, if they need this to be said to them, it’s too late for them to change and/or understand it.
Posted by: Mihai Petrescu (Raven) | July 10th, 2008 at 2:40 pm | Report this commentCompayEE, I tend to agree with your reasoning, a trully European vision.
However, not always do we like the crude and harsh truth.
Errata: “Mr. Severin, so you and everyone else know, I don’t **like** PSD (Social-Democrat Party).”
Posted by: Mihai Petrescu (Raven) | July 10th, 2008 at 2:43 pm | Report this commentMr. Petrescu is not very far from the truth when he alludes to a crude, simplistic - a la The Sun- tabloid type of rationing behind Tony Barber’s article.
With other words, even though Romania is a full member of the EU, Barbers suggests this country should not forget for a second its second-class status and the sharp Damocles’ sword ever hanging above its head.
According to Barber, Romania “should know its place and just sit in the bench before being reminded of its awful problems”.
This is what I call bullying and intimidation really. Romania’s problems. many as they are, are diminishing and economically the country is a huge success story (the GDP growth rate for the last quarter was something like 8%, unemployment is falling under 4%, the investments from abroad are as quantity and quality in Romania’s economy are perhaps the most substantial among the new EU entrants). How comes if the country is so “corrupt” that it managed to achieve these impressive successes?
For ever associating Romania with “corruption” is something of a tiring stereotype. Corruption, unlike the economic data, is difficult to quantify
and I guess, now that Romania -as dynamic as South Korea- can not be accused anymore of “lacking economic reforms” so, the only resort available to the Romania bashers remains this elusive “corruption”.
As so well did Mr. Severin put it above when settling his account with Mr. Barber, isn’t it funny that when it comes to corruption it’s always Romania and never Italy or Greece (see Greece’s huge, huge current “Siemens” scandal in which top politicians were bribed undisturbed for years)?
But then Tony Barber is immune to the other evil doers other than the eternal Romanian foe, who has to be demonised just because!
What exactly did Mr.Severin did wrong really?
Posted by: CompayEE | July 10th, 2008 at 3:41 pm | Report this commentBeing a Romanian myself, I must admit that I find Mr. Severin’s remarks abysmally stupid and somewhat surprising coming from an ex foreign affairs minister.
Posted by: Cristina Popescu | July 10th, 2008 at 3:50 pm | Report this commentAs for Romanian corruption….over the years, we’ve experienced the most unbelievable of things…we’ve seen and heard and been provided with solid evidence that the majority of our politicians are gravely incompetent and if seriously scrutinized by those competent to do so few of them would escape criminal charges for one thing or another.
To tell you the truth, after a while, you get pretty tired of waiting for justice to be served…you come to the realization that indeed we’re running on the “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine” principle, that you cannot realistically expect the corrupt to judge and sentence the corrupt, that you cannot seriously believe that they won’t protect each other…that as long as we have a faulty legislative system or individuals who are willing to look the other way, those people - who’ve been for years now defrauding our country and making huge fortunes that way - will never be seen behind bars (and time goes by and so does the statute of limitation)!! It then appears - especially from the outside looking in - somewhat bizarre that these people should continue to hold public offices, and that they get voted year after year in …one would think that at least the popular vote should take a stand! But no!
Unfortunately a large number of Romanians are either (a) extremely poor (with no acces to television/other media); (b) simply illiterate; (c) prone to falling (badly) for electoral promises and bribes; (d) downright stupid; (d) just ignorant or (e) not interested. To top it all, our politicians are extremely savy at rigging votes and…there you have it!
For the somewhat more “aware” and “understanding” Romanians, at times the only feasible solution seems to emigrate…and get away from all the filth.
To conclude, Mr. Severin’s remarks are idiotic but at the same time emblematic of the ignorance and lack of a certain sense of ridicule that the Romanian society seems to be passing through…
As for corruption, I truly hope that the Commission’s Report shows us no lenience…I hope they will have the nerve to clearly and unambiguously show all the dirt and the corruption…perhaps people will learn, if nothing else, at least to give a damn!
Question: Has the EU outlived whatever it was supposed to accomplish? Observing from afar, it seems to me that 1) the EU is not needed to keep European countries (I don’t include Russia here) from attacking each other. Socialist and pacifist roots have grown so deep that the prospect of war between European states is nill. 2) The EU does not seem able to speak with one voice in foreign affairs–and even if it did, its collective bark would not be heeded by most nations in Asia, Africa or South America. A collection of toothless dogs is not more effective than one or two toothless dogs. 3) It appears that the nations of Europe are giving up more and more of their national sovereignty to the EU, and the EU is aggrandizing more and more power to itself. I wonder if that is what the people of the different European nations REALLY want to do. 4) It seems that EU bureaucrats a)are truly after a superstate, with themselves in control, and b)through their various edicts, intrude more and more into the minutiae of not only decisions tradtionally left to sovereign nations, but even into the daily lives of the citizens of these various nations.
It does appear that it would sasve a lot of time, effort, money and grief if the EU were disbanded and commercial and trade matters dealt with through a simple series of multilateral treaties. The people of Europe are rapidly headed for a situtaion where they have no true national sovereignty, and have to answer to a group of bureaucrats in Brussels who pretty much answer to no one(our experience in the US with a federal system is that the central government slowly [and sometimes not so slowly] and inexorably takes more and more power to itself at the expense of the fifty United States [which are also sovereign under our system]). Power will continue to move to Brussels. Any fair reading of the Lisbon Treaty makes this abundantly clear. But, if that is what the people of Europe want, then fine with me. It is for the people of Europe to decide. But they haven’t much longer to dismantle this supranational state-in-waiting. Soon it will be too powerful to dismantle and there will be no going back. If it were me, I would dismantle it immediately. But, I’m just an observor. I don’t have to live under the EU’s rule. Good luck to all.
Posted by: Terry L. Walker | July 10th, 2008 at 5:02 pm | Report this commentDo they not tell their ‘journalists’ of basic logical fallacies, or is it just the “how to avoid them in writing” part they don’t get to anymore?
Posted by: A.G. | July 10th, 2008 at 5:03 pm | Report this commentOh yes, and I’m a Romanian, should keep quiet, me underdog.
well , to state first : i am romanian,but this is just coincidental.mr. severin is right,and mr.barber made a stupid mistake:public bullying.
Posted by: sad but not true (!sic) | July 10th, 2008 at 5:36 pm | Report this commentuk and some of her so called journalist,seems to be an equivalent to “trojan horse” in eu.I understand uk neccesity for pound, royal insignia, and so on, but to be blunt: Britannic empire is over for hmm maybe a 7 decades,don’t think so? but old reflexes die hard..and you know, we romanian saw many so called empires in our history,but we survive.and eu need badly new blood,new markets…
i am proud to be romanians, cause i don’t think we romanian were second grade citizen or hm inferior.you need romanians more than romanians needs you..
Consider the facts and you will see how correct our Romanian friend is:
Holland - Gateway to the Rhine and the German trade that goes with it.
Romania - if rejected by Europe it might turn it’s attentions back towards it’s old eastern master. Not something that NATO members want to consider.
Ireland - not much in the way of natural resources (unless you count grassland) and not on any major trade routes.
Posted by: Ben | July 10th, 2008 at 5:57 pm | Report this comment@Ben: Ireland may not have Rotterdam but we are the Silicon Valley of Europe. Ireland is the 2nd biggest exporter of software. Most of the world’s top 20 I.T companies have their European H.Q in Ireland.
London, Paris and Dublin are the main I.T centres in Europe. There’s no mention of German, Dutch, Spanish cities. lol
Posted by: Daniel, Dublin | July 10th, 2008 at 6:19 pm | Report this commentI suppose that Mr Severin thinks that Roger Federer should just have declared himself the winner!
Posted by: John | July 10th, 2008 at 6:41 pm | Report this commentI wanted Federer to win but Nadal beat him: I am disappointed but I accept the result.
Mr Severin, Wolfgang Munchau and hordes of Eurocrats want to ignore or over-rule the result of the only democratic vote on the treaty that they said required unanimous approval.
When I was young there were mental hospitals to accommodate those who were unable to accept reality.
I am making no comment on the proposed treaty, just that I do not like cheats and bullies.
As a Romanian, I feel offended when reading both the blog post and the comment posted by Mr. Severin. I don’t blame Mr. Tony Barber for disclosing such information. I would have done EXACTLY the same. I work on Chinese Investment in Africa and political failure in Central Africa and I tend to criticize all those acting against the interest of the people from a particular area. I would certainly use corollary data in Africa and dismiss it as foolish. I believe Mr. Severin does exactly that when talking about Ireland. Adrian Severin should not only be ashamed of his logic. He should be ashamed that he does not present the situation thoroughly in from of the people that voted him so that he can get a seat in the European Parliament.
Posted by: Codrin Arsene | July 10th, 2008 at 8:46 pm | Report this commentWhat Irish politicians did was to explain their people that the Lisbon treaty acts against their interests. Based on the political algorithm, Ireland would lose one commissioner should the Lisbon treaty be adopted, which is what we would call a “minister”; here in the US, the “head of the state department”; or in the UN system “the Executive Director.” Ireland is a small country whose leverage in the EU is rather nonexistent. The same way in many regards countries like Luxembourg, Slovakia or Slovenia have little influence in the Parliament because they only have a handful of MPs. So Irish politicians said to themselves: if we lose the commissioner as well, we will be left with no influence at all!!! It is as simple as that. Now, the tragedy is that Romania is exactly in the same situation. As a matter of fact, Romania might lose the commissioner next year anyway since his portfolio is not only unimportant but also invented such for him, ergo illegitimate in the grand scheme of EU affairs. Romanians should definitely consider that is fact is obviously against their own interest. Only an idiot would vote for his dismissal and Ireland is not one. In Romania though the situation is rather different. Politicians have adopted a “yes-man” policy supporting everything the EU does. Which is foolish. Mr. Severin should rather take note of what happened in Ireland and go back to Romania and tell Romanians exactly the same thing. It is against Romania’s interest to adopt the Lisbon Treaty. In Romania, frankly, if one were to oppose such an act, he/she would be considered a fascist, communist or an anti-EU activist. Unfortunately due to the rather complex past, Romanians get angry when they hear such words. I doubt many know exactly what they mean so they would woo those who would look like EU skeptical.
I used to respect Adrian Severin since he is one of the few Socialists in Romania that still have a “clean image” with no corruption allegations attached to it. Now I reject Mr. Severin more than I reject those who are considered corrupted. Adrian Severin is not corrupted, but he is off-policy. And that is simply dumb and reckless. No wonder Romanian diplomats are given little credit for what they doing at the EU institutions. While they are off-policy, other people know Romania’s policy better then them. And they definitely despise those Romanian leaders who do not know to protect their own interest.
Mr. Severin: I can cope with Romanian politicians who are accused of corruption acts. Most of them are victims of the opponent parties, especially of those who got a hold of the executive powers and who are responsible for orchestrating such accusations meant to discredit their enemies. Only when the courts will sentence them, will I completely reject them. But I cannot stand ignorant, off-policy diplomats. And you’re certainly not a part of the first category, that’s for sure.
Of course the EU could do without Romania; it has done so for 50 years. But that does not in any way invalidate Mr Severin’s comment.
Posted by: Olliphant | July 11th, 2008 at 10:44 am | Report this commentI voted NO because whilst I am a proud European I am worried about the creation of a European Superstate. My Irish political leaders did nothing to convince me that my voice would be heard in Europe.And guess what - it now feels that we’re being told (mostly by the French!!) that we voted the ‘wrong’ way. No wonder I was worried before the referendum and no wonder no other country was allowed a vote!
Posted by: Dave | July 11th, 2008 at 11:54 pm | Report this commentEurope is only about the desire to live together and accomplish together what we could not or would take longer to accomplish if we were alone. Then the main idea was to unite France and Germany first but also the other Europeans states. There is no EU without France and Germany. that’s a fact! If we can’t find a way to move altogether, the EU won’t disappear over night, but the most willing to move forward will go their own way. Despite its recently achieved wealth, ireland has more to lose outside than inside the EU but you cannot oblige people to do things against the own will. The best would be a more democratic EU based on federalism, a Union in which each state would have the same weigh….but that’s a long way to go…
Posted by: pascal-pierre | July 12th, 2008 at 2:01 pm | Report this commentrelying on mr. adrian severin’s comments is not necessarily a wise thing to do…he has been a prominent figure in romanian politics but surely not one of the brightest. his view that geography helps decide who is expendable & who not for the growth of the union is pure simple minded reductionism, one would probably not expect from the awarded man of the 20th century…the argument is surely selfdefeating if applied to mr. severin’s & my own country’s position…with a 5-6 % economic growth romania is surely not expendable for the growth of the european inner market though we lie at the outest frontiers of europe…if mr. severin’s only criterion for political dispensability is geography, I do not see why he shouldn’t say the same thing about romania, bulgaria, the balkans in general, the balticum & other countries that haven’t had the geographical luck to be positioned at the centre…if ireland is dispensable on geographical grounds then so is most of the union…but maybe mr. severin just wanted to be excentrical, or metaphorical, or angry…views similar to his should be considered dispensable, for if most of us would hold them this would make us dispensable for ourselves,for any healthy dialogue or cooperation…
Posted by: victor | July 14th, 2008 at 11:48 am | Report this commentGents, some clarifications:
1. Mr. Severin was, is and will forever be A COMMUNIST.
Which translates into: “how the hell those guys (Irish people) can go against the official policy??? they should be punished for that”.
2. EU could do quite well without Romania. They will just loose a market of 20 millions people, some investments, and make a fresh new enemy. But they could do, for sure.
3. Yes Romania is corrupt.
Corruption is institutionalized, present at almost every level, from just going to the medic or travel by public transport (you can travel without ticket, and just bribe the guys which are supposed to give you a fine), to our ex-Prime Minister (the guy who “sold” {read “give for free” really} a huge steel plant to a very good friend and sponsor of Mr. Blair) buying a plot of land 10 times cheaper than the market price and the President (which approved himself a house from public money).
Of course, judges are corrupt as well. Not all of them, maybe just 90%. The rest of 10 % are too scared to ever convict a politician. Or a rich guy (which is pretty much the same in Romania).
You need the approval of the Parliament to search or prosecute guys from Parliament.
No, isn’t that cute???
I’m sure that UK, Ireland, Germany a.s.o. have some corrupt people.
Posted by: Dracu | July 15th, 2008 at 6:06 am | Report this commentThe difference is that in those countries there is a majority of honest people doing their jobs, and a minority are the corrupt ones, but in Romania is the other way.
Full disclosure first: I am French-Romanian, living and working in Britain as an English-language journalist.
Yes, Mr Severin’s point is rambling. Yes, Romania is corrupt - although certainly not lawless in the way Russia is. (Moreover, bribing the medical profession is common across east-central Europe and Greece. And the recent scandals over MPs’ expenses and their hiring of relatives in the UK suggest even northern EU members have far to go.) And yes, Romania is peripheral and irrelevant in the grander scheme of things: unlike Ireland, it doesn’t even have distinctive cultural markers in the eyes of other Europeans, whatever its citizens might like to think. It could vanish down a drain without anyone noticing much - but so could Ireland.
Indeed, France and the Netherlands do matter, while Ireland does not. And however misguided, the F & NL NO to the Constitution was legitimate, while the Irish NO to Lisbon was not. Here’s why:
1. Historically and symbolically, F & NL are not just great former empires and key countries in the formation of western thought, but founding members of the EU. An EU without F & NL would be like a Commonwealth without Britain, while an EU without Ireland would simply be like a Commonwealth without Malawi. Yeah, well, a pity perhaps, but no big deal. (Need I also add that F & NL didn’t get rich overnight by leeching subsidies to turn themselves into corporate nirvanas, only to bite the hand that fed them once their GDP had gone off the scale?)
2. The combined populations of F & NL are proportionally substantial where Ireland’s is infinitesimal , and therefore their electoral legitimacy in EU-wide terms is immeasurably greater.
3. F & NL voted NO to a proper CONSTITUTION, a readable grand statement of principle that had been long debated in public sessions, with endless input and submissions from civil society. The document had a “We, the people” factor, and posited crucial facts of European identity and aspirations. The Irish, by contrast, voted NO to an incomprehensible summary of administrative amendments, which for all its technical importance, should no more have been submitted to a referendum than the building code or bicycle repair manuals. We don’t put regulations governing the size of mailboxes to popular votes, or our societies would face permanent gridlock.
4. The entire EU is sick and tired of seeing its institutional development and political future being held hostage every few years by a tiny cabal of Sinn Fein sympathisers, pro-life reactionaries, and paleo-tree huggers. The Irish government disingenuously presents the need for referendums as a fatality and the ensuing NO votes as an act of God, when it’s entirely its responsibility to change Irish law so it doesn’t need to hold plebiscites in the first place.
For all of the above reasons, the Irish should be told clearly they have to be in or out. The cost of wrecking the common projects of half a billion people should be made painfully clear. Up till now such actions have been free of charge, allowing the Irish to set fires with impunity. No more!
Posted by: Sato | July 15th, 2008 at 11:29 am | Report this commentIn essence, the greatness of Europa and its success is in the team work and the SOLUTIONS created by all and for all, that’s success…but pointing fingers and talking about expelling countries when we have the leaders that we have, that’s absurd and a waste of time,we still don’t have a new method in the Treaty to elect the EU President and Foreign Minister directly instead of behind closed doors, that’s unacceptable…
next year EU elections demands new “solutions” leaders:
a) a massive “farm push” with a new “total water-irrigation policy ” , family and commercial farms,greenhouses and new fertilizers, to get Europa to feed itself very healthy - organic , and to export too…
b) to grow our own jet A fuel, from jathropa,castor,sugar-cane,pengamia or seaweed-algae, coal and gas to liquid ,etc.,we need a massive infrastructure and mechanical push,as well as water desalination and solar-wind-geothermal, and fast !
c)new turbines all along the Atlantic , wind and water current.
d) fuel-cells showing up in internal plane systems must really take over electrical networks and come down to the “fuel-cell for apartment buildings”, hospitals,factories,etc.,WHAT ARE WE WAITING FOR ???
e) geothermal sites in every region, we have a massive energy source waiting down there,just waiting ….and of course electric cars and trucks charging off it…
leaders that will integrate these solutions for all, lower costs and create jobs,next year elections are vital,new leaders that will make Europa stronger and united…
Posted by: blogger | July 15th, 2008 at 10:14 pm | Report this commentThe entirte political EU enterprise is a monumental mistake driven by out of control egos and empire builders. The Common Market made sense but this EU will only lead to a plethora of recrimination, finger pointing, political paralysis and economic chaos. Since no one has the courage to dismantle the EU the end result can only be self-destruction. The Habsburg Empire all over again. Humans are so stupid!
Posted by: dr. karl kettler | July 17th, 2008 at 3:26 pm | Report this commentPerhaps Tony Barber should brush up his comprehension skills.
It is one thing to say that the EU can function without one country, it is another to say it can do without it.
Posted by: NC | July 22nd, 2008 at 3:44 pm | Report this commentlets have a vote in UK re continued membership of EU. i want one and would vote no. it is all about politics nothing else. bring it on NOW
Posted by: terry sullivan | August 28th, 2008 at 10:06 pm | Report this commentThe EU depends for security on the USA. It is a toothless tiger and it constantly interferes in the business of outside nation states. Right now it is ‘reviewing’ the role of IBM in a dispute that occurred in USA and the complaint has been withdrawn. It is also reviewing the proposed takeover of two basically Australian companies (BHP and Rio Tinto) with mines outside the EU and whose main customers are Japan and China. On top of that it is lecturing Russia on its foreign policy and threatening sanctions. This is driving Russia into the arms of China, a nation happy to buy any gas and oil that the EU does not take. Germany will have a cold dark winter if Russia turns off the gas provided in the Blue Stream (Gazprom) pipe from Siberia to Germany. How stupid and puffed up the EU is getting, taking on Russia and alienating the USA with its meddling in its prime organisations like Boeing and IBM. Last month tje EU tried to stop an execution in Texas through intervention by the EU Court of Justice. The execution of a self-confessed murderer and rapist of a young girl, went ahead of course. Like Texas gives a proverbial about the Europeans. The US, like Russia and China and most countries in the world are NOT subject to the dictates of a trade block called the EU.
What has the trade block achieved? For its memebrs increased wealth by the elimination of trade barriers which has been a good thing. But on the downside those outside its borders suffer, particularly Europe’s former exploited colonies in Africa. The nation states of Europe dump their subsidized food mountain on Africa which causes African farmers to be unable to sell their produce. Now they must either starve or move illegally to live to Europe.
BEFORE PUSHING RUSSIA INTO THE ARMS OF CHINA WITH SANCTIONS, THE WESTERN EUROPEANS SHOULD NOT FORGET THAT THEY SHARE THE SAME LAND MASS AS CHINA. THEY SHOULD REMIND THEMSELVES THAT IN THE FOURTEENTH CENTURY THE MONGOLIAN HORDES UNDER GHENGIS KHAN CONQUORED THE VERY HEART OF WESTERN EUROPE; HUNGARY AND AUSTRIA AND WOULD HAVE MOVED ON TO MOW DOWN THE REST OF EUROPA HAD NOT GHENGIS KHAN BECOME ILL. RIGHT NOW THE PEOPLES’ LIBERATION ARMY NUMBERS OVER THREE MILLION; THAT IS ITS NON-COMBATATIVE STANDING NUMBER AND BEIJING IS A WEEKEND TRAIN RIDE FROM POLAND.
Posted by: Pamela Griffiths, New York. USA. | September 2nd, 2008 at 1:19 am | Report this comment