FT.com | Dear Lucy | ‘Can I cancel dinner with a client to watch the rugby?’

October 16, 2007

‘Can I cancel dinner with a client to watch the rugby?’

My wife and I are due to buy dinner for a client on Saturday night, by way of thanks for a stay in France. We have a booking at a top London restaurant - but it coincides with the Rugby World Cup final. I think England’s remarkable progress in this tournament is worth witnessing to the end - a view not shared by my client or our respective wives. I wanted to delay the booking, but my pregnant wife vetoed this as too late. It is the story of my life to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Is this destined to be another example, or is there a polite way for me to extricate myself and watch the final?
Male, company director, 43

October 16th, 2007 in Uncategorised | Permalink

45 Responses to “‘Can I cancel dinner with a client to watch the rugby?’”

Comments

I think you should video the match - and go to supper. Tough, but right. David
Posted by: David Hares | October 16th, 2007 at 9:08 pm | Report this comment
Watch the rugby on tv while dinning with client.
Posted by: it consultant, male 49 | October 16th, 2007 at 9:09 pm | Report this comment
Grow up and stop whining. Rugby is fun, but it’s just another game and nothing significant changes regardless of who wins or loses. Also, do you know what your client had to forego to host your trip?
Posted by: David Thornewill | October 16th, 2007 at 11:16 pm | Report this comment
Oh ye of little faith and/or naff all foresight; you will be between a rock lobster and a hard shell crab while we watch the match. The date of the Rugby World Cup Final has been known for approximately three years so having committed to host a dinner for a client and your respective spouses, you have absolutely no choice but to do so and no-one to blame but yourself. You haven’t a hope of trying to avoid the buzz of what is happening in the match, because it is likely that dinner will be accompanied by occasional busts of discordant text alerts and loud comments, so the best that you can do is to take your mobile phone and to develop a mild stomach complaint that necessitates occasional comfort breaks. If you read the final score while seated in trap three with your trousers round your ankles, then here’s hoping that you have maintained your ability to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Posted by: Ironybrew: 57, Retired, Male | October 17th, 2007 at 12:46 am | Report this comment
I recommend to video-tape the game, enjoy your dinner and watch the game later on, when everyone left.
Posted by: Claudius Grossmann | October 17th, 2007 at 2:14 am | Report this comment
I’m astonished that as a company director you firstly seem to have a remarkable sense of not being in control of your own destiny (”…story of my life to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.”) AND that you would contemplate pulling out of a dinner with a client who is presumably your bread and butter, even given that sporting success comes rarely to Blighty.

And what does your wife being pregnant have to do with it? Another example of things happening to you??
Posted by: Peter | October 17th, 2007 at 3:56 am | Report this comment
You cannot dump him for a night watching the box. That would be too much. so:

plan A Hope he shows sensitivity and consideration for others and that he suggests re-arranging so that you can watch the match

plan B Don’t cancel your plans but make them more special. Get your hand in your pocket and buy four tickets for the match at the Stade de France.

plan C England are going to lose anyway so reconcile yourself to the fact that going out will be a lot more fun than staying in.
Posted by: paul | October 17th, 2007 at 5:56 am | Report this comment
Go to dinner, be a gracious host, and enjoy yourself. Three ancillary observations: (1) Have you ever undertaken any serious analysis of why you find yourself at the wrong place at the wrong time? Perhaps you should. (2) So you’re buying a client (and your wife) dinner at a top London restaurant by way of thanks for a stay in France. I’m assuming both you and your client are not owner-managers, and that neither you nor your client are really paying for anything, in which case there is generous shareholder funded fun (GSFF?) on both sides. You’re not always in the wrong place at the wrong time. (3) Don’t order South African wine.
Posted by: Arcadian: 47, ex-banker, male | October 17th, 2007 at 6:32 am | Report this comment
I’m surprised you have any clients left: just putting the question shows (sorry about this) that you are rather infantile and lacking in business sense. The other points - who’s paying? why not try some analysis? how did the wife get pregnant? - are interesting, but the main issue here is behaviour in business.
Posted by: Anthony Robbins | October 17th, 2007 at 9:38 am | Report this comment
I second Peter’s comments above - the ability to manage your schedule and personal priorities as well is a requirement and a perquisite of senior jobs in most cases. Without any abdication and with full commitment, it is usually possible to balance personal priorities - the rugby final (and more so England in the final) is a rare event and a dinner with a client (including one bestowing favours on you in France) is a tiresome chore. Just apologise to the client and move the dinner to another day. And if you repeat this mistake once too often, you probably are in the wrong place, and should consider another career or way of life. Could not understand the reference to the pregnancy though - are you worried that disagreeing with your wife on a dinner schedule will cause serious emotional trauma ?
Posted by: Out of the box, 43, Male | October 17th, 2007 at 9:58 am | Report this comment
The other thing you could do is to persuade your client to change plans and go over to Paris for the Rugby final and buy lunch for your client there. You could thereafter plan to be at 330 pm at the “cafe in glass building” at the side of the Gare du Nord where with luck you will meet Severine, Leigh, Consultant and Ironybrew, some of whom have been advising you. And don’t forget the orange on the thumb.
Posted by: Out of the box, 43, Male | October 17th, 2007 at 10:11 am | Report this comment
Is your client likely to read the FT? If so, you should definetely go to that dinner.

I mean, you have given to many clues: 1) dinner with a client at a top London restaurant, 2) by way of thanks for a stay in France, 3) your wife is pregnant, 4)at the same time as the world cup final.

Good luck
Posted by: Vinzo | October 17th, 2007 at 10:44 am | Report this comment
Why dont you change venue to say, a pub?
Posted by: Nick | October 17th, 2007 at 11:19 am | Report this comment
I have no sympathy for your wanting to watch the rugby. For me anything, including a client dinner on a saturday night, would be preferable. However I do feel like leaping to your defence over the nasty, sarky “advice” offered by some readers. Your sort of quandary strikes me as perfectly normal and does not make you a pathetic, spineless twit. Most people with senior jobs spend their lives having to choose between what they’d like to do (watch sport on telly) and what they ought to do (make small talk with clients).
In your case, you can’t get out of the dinner so the best thing to do is to video the game. After the meal go straight home blindfold and with ear plugs in to try and avoid discovering the result. Even if you do advertently find out who wins (say if every car in London is honking its horn) all is not lost. My husband (who will be glued to the telly on Saturday night) assures me that if you know the result before you start watching the game is almost better as you can relax enough to enjoy it.
Posted by: lucy kellaway | October 17th, 2007 at 11:21 am | Report this comment
This is the sort of pessimism that brought down the Empire. As stated above, the date of the final has been known for ages. One has to have believed that England would be there (but who would have thought it). As you admit to being subject to the vicissitudes of fate, flip a coin and choose one of the aforementioned options to take in the match. Good luck with the client.

DC

PS As an American, I never had to deal with such existential issues such as whether or not we would be in the final.
Posted by: David Crosby | October 17th, 2007 at 11:24 am | Report this comment
Come on - South Africa is playing England in the final, duh, imagine if it’s 36-0 AGAIN to SA AND Client=1 Yourself=0 in terms of having the upper/polite hand in your relationship! By the way I am South African… but hey I am Patriotic and ‘realistic’.. haha! Good Luck!
Posted by: James | October 17th, 2007 at 11:40 am | Report this comment
How the hell should we know? It depends how important the client is to you, your boss and your future career/marriage.

A tip for the future: you say that watching the rugby is worth witnessing but this is “a view not shared by my client” - you haven’t actually asked him already have you? In which case it is also too late to find a “polite” way of extricating yourself.

Either you dump him and everyone knows why, and you decide if you care about that; or you go along to the dinner with bruised shins from kicking yourself so hard.

NB while you are bound to work out the result from reactions in town, you should be able to avoid knowing the score, scorers, evolution of the game, etc. so it might still be fun to watch on Sunday with a few beers. (Yes, the voice of someone who learned a similar hard lesson…)
Posted by: Mark, 41, manager | October 17th, 2007 at 12:14 pm | Report this comment
Horrid dilemma, presumably you thought England had no chance of reaching the final – which they didn’t. I very nearly pulled out of my cousin’s wedding to go to the FA Cup final this year, but decided a family occasion such as that had to take precedent. But to dine this Saturday to thank a client who presumably has other free days in his diary…
Some of these posts say a lot about how anal and anti-social finance-types can be. Priding yourself on sacrificing personal enjoyment for the sake of your business is fair enough, but discounting the unfortunate / pretty unavoidable route of the dilemma, the uniqueness and importance of the final (may be THE most significant victory in the history of WC Rugby), and the obvious option of laying on the charm and suggesting to all involved that a slight re-scheduling would be much appreciated… I know accomplished businessmen who would insist on re-scheduling because they simply have to watch the game, and of course the client would never hold it against them.
Posted by: Gordon | October 17th, 2007 at 1:50 pm | Report this comment
What is wrong with all of you? Of course he should take all measures to watch this historic final - if not, he might regret it for the rest of your life. Work is work, and play is play, but by far more important than your career. If this was my problem I would not hesitate for two seconds. And yes, I am a very succesful businessman, and, above all, I’m not stuck in the career rat-race mentality.
Try to live a little!
Posted by: Marcus | October 17th, 2007 at 1:54 pm | Report this comment
All I can say is that you will be extremely unhappy on Saturday night if your team loses. If they win you may not mind that much that you have annoyed your (ex)client (who clearly doesn’t sound like a rugby fan) and disappointed your wife. I take it you are an English fan and arranged the dinner after the previous match between the two sides. Although this game will probably be much closer, I really think you should go to your dinner!
Posted by: James | October 17th, 2007 at 3:24 pm | Report this comment
What a lot of self-important noise from the FT’s Agony Aunts. No doubt your client would get on with some of these kill-joys famously. You would have to prise the remote from my rigamortis-stiffened fingers to stop me watching the game on Saturday. That said I might have made slightly more extensive use of my diary before booking anything - perhaps you are a mere fair weather fan?

It is a shame that your client does not share your primal need to suffer the slings and arrows that 80 minutes of momentous RWC Final action will provide (no, watching a recording will not do!) It is also a shame that you feel so overawed by your client that you are concerned he will think worse of you for liking something he does not. After all, if the man thinks enough of you to so generously put you up in France (I assume it wasn’t for the rugby), surely he can understand that you have passions in life beyond attending to his business needs.

I dare say he might respect you more if you grew a spine and rearranged than went ahead as planned. Surely it would be more disingenuous to fidget your way through an uncomfortable dinner making small talk about the state of the CDO market. Everyone will know you don’t want to be there and you will look like nothing more than shallow sycophant.

The other solution might be to book a table at Hell’s Kitchen and if it’s frozen over you will know that dinner is the winner. Alternatively, tell Marco you love his work on Kitchen Nightmares then leg it to the nearest watering hole to catch the game.
Posted by: Charlie, 30, banker and unashamed England rugby fan | October 17th, 2007 at 3:49 pm | Report this comment
Record the match on your PVR (does anyone use VCR’s anymore ?!) and go to dinner with your client. Block out Sunday from say 3pm because the Brazilian Grand Prix will be on and Britain probably has a better chance of having a GP World Champion rather than a Rugby World Champion. Then again form does not stand for anything!!!!!
Posted by: Andrew Long | October 17th, 2007 at 3:51 pm | Report this comment
I apologise if my earlier remarks were nasty or sarky. I am a fair weather supporter of England in other sports so I should perhaps be more understanding of your sudden interest in rugby. I do not however, apologise for considering you to be a self pitying, self obsessed, excuse for a host. It is probably best not to enquire precisely what hospitality you feel obliged to repay but if, as seems likely, your guests are French, then you should have addressed this matter when it became clear almost two weeks ago, that either France or England would be in the final. Business entertaining is no more fun than business travel but I presume that you are rewarded for your diligence in these and other things. Hosting this dinner is inevitable. Do it with style and grace.
Posted by: Ironybrew: 57, Male, Retired | October 17th, 2007 at 4:39 pm | Report this comment
I posted this dilemma and have learnt a lot about the psyche of FT readers from your posts - thanks. My guess is that those who are striving for success think my dilemma childish and pointless and the dinner all important. Meanwhile, those that have achieved success - or are less obsessed by success - can view it in the round. Other points:
1) My client hates all such tournaments, declaring them “bad for business”. Nothing would annoy him more than having to sit through something offering only vicarious enjoyment,
2) Indeed, I am more a football man than a rugby type - but it is not for the sport I want to watch this. It is for the history. Sporting occasions such as this have replaced the great battles as the key historic moments for a nation. This explains my desire, but why I missed the date. Could this be our sporting modern day Agincourt? I hope so.
3) My wife’s (late) pregnancy made her reluctant for a late supper - hence the mention of it. The fact kids would have to come has also prevented the one obvious answer (though not offered) - to switch to lunch.
4) It is entirely my company - as it is his. I have no feelings of insecurity about position/status. As for being bullied - anyone who has created a company from zilch and built it up is bullied by all comers (including staff) - every day. But at least none of them are your boss and you are in charge of your own destiny.
5) One possible solution is to send him this Dear Lucy link and hope he sees the funny side - or at least appreciates the agonies I am going through. Bit risky that, so I won’t.

So, I hope for an England win and a lovely dinner with someone who is always great company. In the end, the match fades - it is the story that stays in the memory.
Posted by: Bob | October 17th, 2007 at 4:41 pm | Report this comment
Sounds like to not go to this dinner would be a very bad call. Being a rugby fan, I can agree this is very unfortunate for yourself. Here is an outlandish proposal, if you really can’t wait to watch the recording of it later: Purchase a set of wireless earphones - they must be inner ear, not the huge visible type. Position only one of the earphones in the ear on the other side of your client. Setup wireless connection to radio on blackberry. Now for the piece de la resistance.. Order something spicy, with just enough chilli to explain the occasional gasps and pauses, lapses in listening, etc that accompany the rugby match. Go to frequent visits to the loo and watch final parts on a handheld TV. Sorted sir.. Although your client may find your sporadic behaviour strange, especially as you shout “COM ON BOYS!!!”. So just make sure you don’t get carried away..
Posted by: Southern Rock | October 17th, 2007 at 4:46 pm | Report this comment
Suggest you cancel the dinner and book another time - why not? Do you really need to give a reason? You’ll have a better evening out, rather than poping to the gents every 5 mins to check the score on your blackberry. Just make sure you can make the new date and send some bubbly to your client to keep them happy.
Posted by: nickw | October 17th, 2007 at 5:12 pm | Report this comment
Just say your wife had some contractions and need to stay at home to rest and that you wouldn’t leave her alone, just in case.
Posted by: Beatrice, 30, Analyst | October 17th, 2007 at 6:19 pm | Report this comment
1) Bring a radio and have one earphone placed cleverly in your ear, and make sure the person sitting on one side is your wife.

2)Quit your job - think of the lad points your mates will give you, which will definitely counteract the wife and baby.

3)Eat up and shut up. You laid your own bed now sleep in it. The meal will be one of most memorable of your life for all the things that you will not be doing - think of the anecdotes!
Posted by: Bernhard | October 17th, 2007 at 6:46 pm | Report this comment
If you insist on watching, you could hire a double to go with your wife. But think how miserable you’ll be if you watch the game and England loses -a definite possibility.
Posted by: Alex L | October 17th, 2007 at 7:19 pm | Report this comment
I would like to thank Bob for sharing his conclusions on the psyche of FT readers. What I find particularly impressive is that he posted them during the live coverage of England’s crucial Euro 2008 Qualifier against Russia.
Posted by: Ironybrew: 57, Male, Retired | October 17th, 2007 at 7:38 pm | Report this comment
Tell your client that, for some reason, your preferred destination is booked for a private function and you cannot be allowed to go.

If it is discovered you lied (in case your client calls the restaurant), tell him that’s what they said when you called (He will understand, since a lot of communication breakdown occurs when shifts change hands).

You do NOT need to doubt this one, it will work, and you will be glad you listened to me
Posted by: Mwazi Ndhlovu | October 17th, 2007 at 7:53 pm | Report this comment
You are past 40; you have responsibilities at work, a wife and a child on the way. Act like it.
Posted by: J Michael, private banker, 38 | October 18th, 2007 at 12:12 am | Report this comment
As the author of some of the “sarky, nasty” comments (…I agree they were) and reflecting on the unfolding commentary, realizing I’m probably uptight and need to live more (per Marcus).
Posted by: Peter | October 18th, 2007 at 1:01 am | Report this comment
J Michael - just wondered if you offered such tough love advice to your private banking clients? Certainly, such mean spirited attitudes and lack of empathy are pretty incompatiible with private banking in my experience. Or perhaps this is how you cope with all that fawning and forelock tugging - by hitting out at those willing to question to work-life sacrifices we all have to endure? My advice - endure the sacrifice (enjoy it even). But soak up the atmosphere in town after the victory (it was the history you were after, after all). If we lose, nothing lost.
Posted by: Jim | October 18th, 2007 at 8:45 am | Report this comment
REALITY REVEALED TO JIM: On the contrary, without those willing to endure ‘work-life sacrifices’, there would be nobody to serve private banking clients’ needs (and wants, even whims). And without similar ’sacrifices’ from those who build companies ‘from zilch’ and other greater fortunes, there would be far fewer clients to serve.

Finally, even setting aside responsibilities as a 43yo company director, it need not be pointed out which side of work-vs-life (1)wife, (2)child, and (3)gratitude “for hospitality they extended to us when we stayed in France” lie.
Posted by: J Michael, private banker, 38 | October 18th, 2007 at 12:28 pm | Report this comment
Maybe I should loosen up a bit and maybe I have enjoyed the discomfiture of England’s rugby critics a bit too much but there is a more important point to make.

Most of the people that have commented on this matter probably do jobs where it is essential that they are believed. Whatever they do, whether they sell things, buy things, report things or make things, they can only do their jobs quickly and efficiently if people believe that what they say is said in good faith. If people ever conclude that you cannot be trusted, even to the extent of minor wriggles, everything you negotiate will suddenly need to be tied down by lawyers and a signing ceremony before you can rely on it.

Minor excuses over a rugby match or minor non-disclosure of facts at the start of a frivolous discussion such as this, will not do irreparable harm but they aren’t going to help when you really do need other people’s trust quickly. But then as I say, maybe I should loosen up a bit.
Posted by: Ironybrew, 57, Retired, Male | October 19th, 2007 at 1:46 am | Report this comment
Pardon the length.

I don’t know about rugby, but as someone who flew to Japan and Korea in 2002 for football, I know the exhiliration of living life as portrayed in beer TV commercials.

I don’t know about private bankers, but I have discovered that everything in life after university inevitably means restrictions–a job means less freedom, as does every promotion which comes with added responsibility, and every client especially one worth retaining … as would any wife worth keeping, and every child existing or coming (whom she is certain to take with her if she leaves). I console myself with the fact that millions of other men in every profession are in the same boat.

I don’t know about owner-managers, but I have always been under the impression that part of the ludicrous packages paid to bankers and consultants is compensation for these very restrictions. Perhaps they are telling us to find solace in –never mind spacious homes/penthouse flats, late-model convertibles, giant flat-screen tellies for recorded matches– a wife who, unburdened by budget worries, focuses her resources on raising well-raised well-schooled children who are a joy to the parents, and on the husband when he comes home and when they all go out together, even if it is to France to meet a client or to dinner in England to thank their gracious French hosts.

I wonder, though, about those who work for the beer companies advertised in those dream commercials and about the advertising executives who make them. If they have it even better than we do, then we know whom to demonise as we replay recorded matches we were unable to watch live–beer in hand, wife shaking her head but smiling, and child safely tucked in bed.
Posted by: HKLivingston, 25, investment banker | October 19th, 2007 at 4:23 am | Report this comment
Why not entertain at home!!
Posted by: Sam | October 19th, 2007 at 12:04 pm | Report this comment
Just thought I’d let you know the result (of my dilemma, that is).
I chose Jim’s wise words above - soak in the atmoshpere if they win, pain avoided if they lose. So pain was avoided and we had a lovely dinner. What’s more, the restaurant was half empty, allowing us to get the full attention of the waiters and chef. We also got a great view without the usual table-haggling in London’s finest eateries.
Another bonus was the fun I had telling my guests about the Dear Lucy responses. They thought it hilarious.
It was never seriously in doubt what I would do but, boy, some of you guys need to get some perspective. It is fine to have a view on this - “of course the client wins” or “of course you should see the rugby” - but to start slagging me over personal details such as my age, position, family - you should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is a perfectly legitimate dilemma - young or old, married or single, parent or dinkies, successful or soon-to-be successful, starting out or nearly retired, manager or owner, client or supplier, rugby-nut of fair-weather patriot. Clients are clients but history needs to be witnessed. It is certainly not spineless to ponder the options and seek imaginative solutions (and thank you for the positive ones).
All I can think is that perhaps some people with less choice than I had over this (my successful company, a client who is also a friend, many many enjoyable evenings together) have to act the fundamentalist to conceal their inner frustrations at the compromises they have to make in order to “make it”. oh dear.
My advice to them - make the compromises but try and be a little less judgemental. The key to success is listening and seeking good advice - not pontification.
Posted by: Bob | October 22nd, 2007 at 1:30 pm | Report this comment
Absolutely Masterly!
Posted by: Ironybrew: 57, Retired, Male | October 22nd, 2007 at 11:33 pm | Report this comment
I am sincerely glad that the evening went well for you.

But pardon me for pointing out that
1 the price one pays for seeking advice in a public forum is the variety of replies one gets–if you welcome only affirmative opinions, a disclaimer would have been in order;
2 the nature of the FT readership is such that there are countless people infinitely more successful than you or me, whether in owner-run businesses or large organisations–to characterise their convictions as ‘fundamentalism employed to mask inner frustrations at compromises faced’ could very well be seen by third parties as juvenile spite against those whose views happened to have been unflattering to the advice-seeker;
3 one irony is the fact that the characterisation only confirms the third-party view;
4 the greater irony is the fact that we all face similar multiple (and at times conflicting) considerations (family-vs-work/self-vs-family/self-vs-work)–the feelings are often the same, although the choices sometimes differ.

Again, I am happy for your blessings–a wife who is able to socialise with the husband’s work associates, a child on the way, a client who is as pleasant to associate with socially, and a succesful owner-run business.
Posted by: HKLivingston, 25, investment banker | October 24th, 2007 at 10:35 am | Report this comment
only one thing to do … book your client a hotel room and send an escort. Your secret will be safe!!
Posted by: marke | November 6th, 2007 at 11:24 pm | Report this comment
i’d seek medical advise if I were you.
Posted by: JB | November 7th, 2007 at 11:49 pm | Report this comment
I think that Vinzo’s post suggesting that your client might learn of your dilemma is a bit alarmist. I am sure that the FT’s administration is secure and your client is unlikely to connect your problem with say, dinner at Skylon. It would of course be dangerous were you to copy all the opinions on this subject and publish them as RK’s diary on Blogspot, particularly if you couldn’t then resist the temptation to name your company, which would of course lead to your website. That in turn, might lead to informed speculation as to whether one of your largest clients might consider a key sporting event to be bad for business. Provided that you don’t do that you’ll be fine.
Posted by: Ironybrew: 57, Retired, Male | November 14th, 2007 at 9:17 pm | Report this comment
Well the best known client of the Moorgate Group appears to be Luke Johnson. Are we getting warm?
Posted by: Ironybrew: Male, 57, Retired | December 16th, 2007 at 12:59 am | Report this comment

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