February 7, 2008
‘How should I approach an MBA graduate about his cocksure demeanour?’
A new recruit recently joined my team – an MBA graduate fresh out of London Business School. To the annoyance of all other team members, he is living up to the MBA acronym, Mighty Big Attitude. I am all for supporting up-and-coming leaders, but not to the detriment of others. He assumes he is on a fast track to senior management, name-drops his MBA theories, and is reluctant to do tasks he considers beneath him. How should I approach him about his manner in the work environment? I have no doubt he is a skilled worker but his cocksure demeanour and lack of team awareness must surely be addressed?
Manager, male, 51
Lucy’s Answer
There are few sights quite as ugly to someone with your length of experience as a jargon-talking young whippersnapper who thinks he is destined for the top.
Alas, one of the reasons the sight is so horrible is that the whippersnapper is likely to be right – I fear this one may advance far faster and further than you ever have. He talks the language, he has the ambition and people like him have a sickening way of doing really well.
I am assuming that you didn’t hire him yourself? If you did you are very silly: obnoxiousness is one of the few things that show up clearly at interview. It sounds as if you had him thrust upon you by someone senior, who saw promise, rather than a cocksure idiot jabbering about strategic initiatives.
In this case there is no point in wasting your time trying to coach him. He isn’t going to listen to you, as you are on the wrong side of the culture gap. You think he is pushy; I bet he thinks you are a has-been and a failure.
As his line manager it is simply your job to ensure that he does what he is supposed to do, whether he thinks it beneath him or not. If he refuses you have every right to come down on him very hard.
Either way I don’t think this situation will last long. Probably he will get promoted on to someone else’s team and you won’t have to think about him any more.
If he doesn’t, there is a good chance he’ll quit. It is encouraging that everyone else on your team dislikes him. Unless he is really thick-skinned, he may find that being ostracised in a job that he thinks is below him is not really a compelling value proposition.
With any luck he will take his awful jargon to a management consultancy, where both his words and his attitude would fit in nicely.
Knocking the self-confidence out of young graduates is one of the most important tasks managers play in UK corporate life. These graduates get all sorts of crazy ideas about building businesses and improving profits at an MBA. It is essential you bring him down to Earth with a big bump. Give him a task that is way beyond what you think he can achieve, given his age and experience, and sit back and watch him fall flat on his face. If he excels at the task, you are toast.
Posted by: richard | February 7th, 2008 at 8:44 am | Report this commentMale management consultant, 43
I think you should let him get on with it. If he is reluctant to do jobs he sees as beneath him, then raise it in his appraisal and mark him down for it. When your managers ask about him be honest - you think he is overconfident and not a team player. Eventually as his career doesn’t develop as he wishes he will come and ask for advice and be prepared to take it. If you give him all your opinions now he probably won’t care.
Perhaps though, I am too confident. I only graduated 3 years ago.
Posted by: James | February 7th, 2008 at 11:08 am | Report this comment(A) Advise him in private.
(B) Upbraid him in public.
(C) Assign him a task reflecting the size of his ego.
The first is a waste–you will be ignored.
The second is counter-productive–he becomes the victim, you become the bully.
The third is a win for you either way–if he succeeds then his sense of self-worth was right all along and you have a prodigy; otherwise, you will have cut him down to size without blood on your hands.
Posted by: J Michael, private banker, 39 | February 7th, 2008 at 11:51 am | Report this commentI agree with James. People like that often get a wake-up call sooner or later, but he will only resent you if you do it… and why should you do him any favours? Use the assesments to show how you feel. “Not a team player” is a branding that could really slow his career. Then the onus is on him to change, in his own way, on his own time.
I think giving the MBA a task potentially beyond his abilities will only fuel his ego in the short run, and can backfire dangerously. It is a lose-lose situation. If he succeeds at the task, then his ego will spiral into the stratosphere, and you lose. If he fails, then you risk the failure infecting your track record, and he will probably blame someone/something else anyways.
I agree with Richard that cutting these young cocks down a notch or two is an important job for managers, but it’s also an extremely delicate one.
If you can be bothered (and I don’t blame you if you can’t), then you should gain his trust, become his “friend”, go out for drinks with him, “take him under your wing” (which I’m sure will make him feel quite enthralled) for a spell, and then–GENTLY–suggest that perhaps he isn’t the best of team players, and that “it’s the only thing stopping his career”, and that he really needs to work on himself in that respect before he can advance etc. etc.–i.e. that it’s just as important to be a good team player and have the proper people skills as it is being actually good at your job.
This however requires time and energy, and most of all, a great deal of patience, especially if you can’t stand being around the guy. I sure wouldn’t do it. I’d rather stick accupuncture needles in my eyeballs.
Gain his trust, be his friend, and then tell him what a wiener he is and have a Big Discussion about it.
Posted by: KatyZ, 35, MBA student | February 7th, 2008 at 1:12 pm | Report this commentWould need to understand how he ended up in your department, did you hire him directly or is he being sponsored by some senior management or corporate induction program?
If you hired him directly, and you are his senior management contact within the company, then don’t waste anymore time and have a man to man chat. He needs to be put straight and you have a responsibility to him and your team to do this.
If, however, his is being sponsored by some senior manager or corporate program, then you need to consider the internal politics at play. If you feel a direct approach could affect your political situation, then you need to apply all the soft skills suggested above. It’s the long way, but you don’t need to risk your own political capital for him.
Posted by: Paul, 45, Male, General Manager | February 7th, 2008 at 1:37 pm | Report this commentGive him a responsibility that he claims he can handle…Has he graduated from the regular program or is he a Sloan grad. Sloan grads have rich experience, so its always better to use that experience to your advantage. If he has got lot of experience on paper, testing it out will help you find out if he is as good as he claims and or help him realise that he has to work with the team. If he fits the role and doesnt fit in with the culture, then you should use appraisals to give constructive feedback.
Posted by: Ram Raghvan | February 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pm | Report this commentHaving just recently graduated from that same school, I do agree that there were (and are and always will be) big egos walking around. Fortunately these were, in my opinion, a minority - which makes that school such a great place to study at and the MBA such a fantastic experience.
However, these are extremely easy to ‘detect’. I wonder how come you did not see that when you interviewed that graduate. Here are my two cents on this: next time time try to focus more on the personality of your candidates, instead of the ‘big’ names on their cv. After all, every MBA is an MBA, which means (or should mean) that he or she is a strong candidate. But is he humble? A nice guy? Interesting to be with? You will spend around 10 hours of your weekdays with him/her… that’s more time with them then with your partner or kids! Make sure you will enjoy having that person next to you.
PS: I aggree with using appraisals to give your constructive feedback. But this shouldn’t come as something unexpected. An honest dialog should be kept at all times. If you avoid having face-to-face conversations with him, he might not be aware of your opinion. Suddenly realising that he is not appreciated on something as ‘cold’ as appraisals might do more harm and backfire.
Posted by: Ricardo | February 7th, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Report this commentAll these suggestions have merit, but you need to nip the problem in the bud. The risk in giving out a task too big is that he screws up something of significance. You could just be honest and - with full explanation - give him a warning, followed by notice period. That will allow him to assimilate into the team if he really wants to, or if it doesn’t work out give you just cause to show him the door at a later stage.
Posted by: Ed, 39, headhunter | February 7th, 2008 at 2:49 pm | Report this commentWe will self police this. If we can get a hint as to who it is, we will talk to him offline. This is not the kind of behavior that is reflective of London Business School graduates, and it’s unfortunate.
Posted by: LBS Class of 2007 | February 7th, 2008 at 2:51 pm | Report this commentThat last comment is a bit sinister, isn’t it? If attending LBS means you are sentenced to a lifetime of scrutiny by some self-appointed cabal of enforcers, I think i’ll do my MBA elsewhere!
Posted by: Rick | February 7th, 2008 at 3:01 pm | Report this commentAdvise, Direct and Fire; follow as far as is necessary
Posted by: Tom | February 7th, 2008 at 3:08 pm | Report this commentThe first two problems you mention, thinking he is on the fast track and name-dropping theories, come under the heading of being generally annoying. This is endemic in business life, and there’s probably someone in the organisation on whom you have the same effect. Live with it, but feel free to show your irritation.
The third point, not doing tasks he considers to be beneath him, is different. You need to make it very clear that he is hired to do the job you need doing, not the job he thinks he deserves (which presumably is CEO). Be utterly relentless on this and you will either get a useful job done, or get him out of the organisation.
Posted by: Alastair, aged 46 , consultant | February 7th, 2008 at 3:17 pm | Report this commentSounds like several people I have met over the years. I wouldn’t be sure that it’s his MBA that caused the problem but it is one of the props that supports his natural personality and ego.
It is a surprise that his personality wasn’t picked up at interview, but then people like that are usually very good at telling the interviewer or their boss what they want to hear, regardless of whether its true or not.
Get rid of him as soon as you can. You need team players.
Des, male,Director in a Multinational, 51
Posted by: Des | February 7th, 2008 at 4:19 pm | Report this commentI am going to sound a contrarian note here. What is the context in which you hired this guy (i.e. against what job description) and have you held true to that context to date? How much pre-MBA experience does he have in general and in your industry in particular? After all, a fresh MBA from any top tier business school quite commonly has 6-8 years of experience. Is there any chance that you are unfairly discounting his previous experience?
Presumably you are paying him a fat salary - are you pointing him towards work that generates enough value to justify that fat salary? If not, do not be surprised that he is unhappy and vocal about it - passive wallflowers typically do not into an MBA programme get.
Looking back at my first post-MBA job, I had a colleague who was asked to tabulate and classify the hardware in a data centre because the project team was short on staff. You bet he was arrogant and reluctant about the role - but once he haggled his way from listing hardware to actually working on data centre transformation itself, he was suddenly dynamic, enthusiastic and very effective.
In my experience, hiring an MBA is pretty useless if your organisation lacks an enabling culture. That does not mean a culture where MBAs are royalty. It just means a culture where there is an implicit recognition of their potential and a conscious attempt to harness that potential.
My advice: compare this guy to other MBAs within the organisation. If his attitude is unique, then you are probably right and you have a problem employee on hand. But if your organisation often has similar reactions from other MBAs it hires or he is one of the very first MBAs your organisation has hired, it may be worth having an open-minded one to one with him to understand his worldview a bit better.
Arrogant he might be but whether it is the arrogance of somebody who wants to get away with doing less or the arrogance of someone desperate to do more - that is the question you want to answer.
Posted by: Shubho, 32, Male, Group Strategy Manager | February 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm | Report this commentDear Leader
There seems to be a mis-alignment between the expectation of the graduate MBA and yourself/the organization and/or the role. He feels insecure as his role is not challenging enough, while you are insecure because you are not an MBA and dont’ know how to lead? I would assume the fault goes both side, this is evidence of frustration on his side, I had the same experience, and was bullied by people whom lacked the intellect but held high positions. The problem is you, please re-evaluate your understanding of the situation and why you hired this person. The situation will not improve, and you better make a change, please fire him for his own good, so he can go where he is appreciated ! It happened to me. Thank God to people like you. Grow up please !!
The End.
Posted by: another MBA | February 7th, 2008 at 5:44 pm | Report this commentI believe that if a person is arrogant, he/she has something to offer.Find what is that thing in him and provide him the best opportunities to do to his potential.He is from a big school and will realise going forward that there is some problem with his attitude and will make the ammendments.The wayouts mentioned above are true to deal with people with not so strong pedigree but not for a person who has done his MBA from LBS.
Posted by: Akash Deep Gautam | February 7th, 2008 at 5:48 pm | Report this commentI believe that business is, amongst other, about relationships (you and MBA graduate)and change (newcomer rocking the boat)which are both key to business success. There is no easy solution here and it is a difficult situation for all concerned - incl. the MBA graduate (why was the obviously highly qualified MBA graduate recruited (joined your team) in the first place?). My advice is that you both need to work on making the relationship work and you need to work on a small “change management type” induction program to help everyone get through this time of uncertainty. Good luck.
Posted by: Jose | February 7th, 2008 at 6:33 pm | Report this commentI’d suggest relaxing a little bit & ensuring you’re retirement package is in order. A manager that has to write the FT to ask about how to approach another employee probably has little time left at his current firm.
However, if you do find yourself without work I’m certain the new employee will know some MBAs out there who may need some ‘help.’
Posted by: UkMountaineer, 31 | February 7th, 2008 at 7:33 pm | Report this commentHow did he get the job in the first place? Looks like you have more than one problem. Time is too short in business to mentor someone who is self-adsorbed, return this one to the shop and pick another.
Posted by: Niall, Male, Director, 40s | February 7th, 2008 at 8:19 pm | Report this commentDear writer,
Posted by: Gaurav | February 7th, 2008 at 8:22 pm | Report this commentI agree with a number of people who wrote that perhaps the problem lies in perception of MBAs and the perception being naturally biased to assuming that the MBA is cocky! Would you think he is cocky if he had the same behaviour but was not an MBA? If so, then probably their is something wrong in him. I believe giving feedback is important: do talk to him. If it bothers you and stops you from having a good working relationship, I am sure it will eventually rub off on and stop him from being productive either.
I have also had a problem, in the past, with a London Business School (LBS) MBA graduate. Unfortuanely, this is part of what these top executive schools teach - they encourage unprecidented confidence because top consultancy firms hire direct from these places and they need cocksure behaviour to survive the consultant culture, besides the schools using the number of grads placed in top jobs as a success factor of their MBA programme.
Being an MBA grad myself, (not from LBS, but a much more affordable and accredited Middx Univ), I found myself “breaking” this arrogance down, little by little in one-on-one situations. This had some degree of success and the employee (knowing I was had an MBA also) was then cautious of his behavior to some extent.
So, my advice:
1) Get another MBA grad in a management position to coach / challenge the arrogance or demeanour
2) If that doesn’t work - try a one-on-one approach and acknowledge awareness these schools boost unreal confidence
3) If that doesn’t work, just tell him the truth no-one likes a cocksure wiseguy
4) Encourage him to become a consultant as this would be more fitting to his behaviour
Andrew, Male, 45, Corporate Vice President
Posted by: Andrew Gill | February 7th, 2008 at 9:02 pm | Report this commentUnfortunately, there will always be those who are short on accomplishments but long on bullshit, ego, and attitude. We currently have one such person challenging Hillary Clinton for the Democratic Presidential nomination here in the United States.
If it’s any consolation, just remember that the value an MBA once carried has been largely destroyed after over two decades of MBAs bringing us the dot-com bubble, the housing bubble, the capital markets disaster, the mortgage/banking disasters, and countless other breathtaking fiascos.
Posted by: charles | February 8th, 2008 at 2:53 am | Report this commentTalk to him in a private and professional manner about what you perceive is his attitude. If he is defensive, start on the path of “well, maybe this isn’t the right place for you to start your career… maybe there would be other firms in which you would feel more comfortable…” MBAs right now are watching investment banks and consultancies cut thousands of staff and have headlines in the FT announcing this. Most are happy to have a job - ANY job - at this point in a pre-recession-seeming global economy. The thought of maybe, not being wanted in the job, and possibly, being considered to be put out of that job, should scare him straight. If not, then (if you are indeed in the position to decide) plan to move him to another division, or out of your firm. I was an MBA graduating in 2000 and just made it into my job as the dot-com bubble was about to burst. Classes that followed mine had low placement percentages and were scrounging for work. That type of environment is just about upon us. How will he compete with experienced folks just laid off from big firms, if he were to be moved aside?
Posted by: Scooter | February 8th, 2008 at 9:27 am | Report this commentNext question for Lucy : How should I approach an incompetent boss who thinks I have a cocksure demeanour ?
Posted by: Out of the box, 43, Male | February 8th, 2008 at 10:42 am | Report this commentI am an MBA graduate fresh out of LBS, joined a team headed by a senior manager in his early fifties. Unfortunately the team leader is operating in a comfort zone and would be happy for the entire team to do a maintenance job and show no initative. I know I lack the experience but I do have the drive, spirit and the initiative. It will be a happy situation if the maturity and experience of the team leader and the team can work positively with my ideas. But a “put me down” attitude and the stone walling (much of it manifesting through unnecessary or unpleasant assignments) is wearing me down. The rest of the team may not necessarily share the views of the team leader but he certainly has a large influence on them. Do I cut my losses and run, or do I give it more time and try to develop a niche for myself, despite the attitude of the boss ? - Young executive, 24, male.
There are three main components of managing people’s (including MBA’s) work: make sure they know what they are meant to achieve, make sure they have the means to achieve it and recognise success and failure. Everyone prefers their own “meant to achieve” to be specified as broadly as possible, so the most worrying word in your problem is “task”.
There are many work “tasks” (photocopying, note-taking etc) that almost everyone has done and no-one considers a worthwhile achievement in their own right. Make sure that you are not over-reacting to attitude by assigning narrow tasks rather than broader objectives.
As for the Mighty Big Attitude, if the recruit is too thick skinned to recognize and modify his own effect on his colleagues, introduce the normally pointless 360 degree appraisal process for new recruits, use a good thesaurus to gather every “cocksure” analogy and ensure that none of them are missed out.
Posted by: Ironybrew, Male, 58, Retired | February 8th, 2008 at 11:53 am | Report this commentSounds like this MBA’s arrotistical (TM) arse is too big for his britches. I suggest cutting it down to size. Only then can you help him grow his integethical (TM) footprint. Good luck.
Posted by: Martin L | February 8th, 2008 at 3:25 pm | Report this commentJust finishing an MBA (age 44) and have already found that my managers are becoming more insecure about their own role. An MBA might teach you lots of fancy tricks and models - but it also opens your eyes to another way of doing things especial critical thinking - a threat to the status-quo maybe…
Perhaps the manager in question should look towards his own issues before taking any action.
Posted by: Peter Stone | February 8th, 2008 at 4:17 pm | Report this commentI agree with Shubho. This guy already has a few years pre-MBA under his belt, but from the majority of these responses everyone seems to be discussing him as if he’s an 18 year old. He must know a thing or two from experience, and if he doesn’t respect you or the organisation you need to find out why that is, rather than just assume that he’s blind to everything except his own talent.
Posted by: Pete | February 8th, 2008 at 5:57 pm | Report this commentJust remember, American President George w. Bush has an MBA from Harvard University.
So much for MBAs.
Posted by: Brian | February 8th, 2008 at 5:57 pm | Report this commentDear Young executive, 24, male
Though your wisdom and ego may tell you otherwise, being hired, by definition, means someone else is boss–no, the one with the MBA is not necessarily always right, nor gets his way.
All hope is not lost. Armed with an MBA, you should be equipped with the skills indispensable to effective communication within an organisation–discovering everyone else’s ideas, making them understand and receptive to yours, finding ways for the team to utilise both. (While you’re at it, perhaps also discover if the ‘incompetent senior manager in his fifties’ is the only one having problems with your ego?)
Failing that, you, of course, have the option of starting your own company and being your own boss. Let the market show you how much you are truly worth.
PS:
Posted by: HKLivingston, 26, investment banker | February 9th, 2008 at 9:13 am | Report this commentI honestly wonder why a mid-size fish such as yourself did not seek employment in a big pond–where MBAs are not a rarity and LBS pales in comparison to where everyone else went for their undergraduate, Master’s and Doctorate degrees.
The question is not clear about the age and experience of the MBA graduate in question. If you feel the work you are expecting them to do is appropriate for someone of their skillset & they are getting ‘arsey’ about it - you need to have a ‘clear the air’ chat.
Being a walking/talking MBA is fine - but if they are not a team player, are fussy about what they are given to do or do not have an attention to detail - you have to wonder why you are paying this ‘prima donna’ a salary!
Posted by: Andrew | February 9th, 2008 at 9:58 am | Report this commentI often hear about how efficient the markets are–it’s amazing how difficult it is to experience this efficiency at a personal level. Is your young MBA soon to be weeded out–ending up, perhaps, in an entirely different industry–or is his “Mighty Big Attitude” an omen of a mighty big career as a senior manager at your firm? You haven’t said much of your business but I suspect that swift and direct talk to the young MBA graduate will have a remarkable effect if he is truly willing and able to succeed. If you do not advise him, the lessons become harsher in each succeeding job.
Posted by: Patrick, 51, male, private investor | February 11th, 2008 at 5:43 am | Report this commentYour employee’s attitude looks like he’s not very self-confident and in need of a paternal figure or something like that. There’s not much you can do as a manager to change that in the work situation. Encourage him to get a life outside the office so he can use the energy somewhere else.
Posted by: coco, 35, male, COO | February 11th, 2008 at 8:00 am | Report this commentIn my experience, freeloading and arrogance is sadly all too common in the MBA classroom and my guess is this graduate spent the duration of his degree working out an effortless route to graduation by dodging team-work and exploiting fellow students. These types are somewhat responsible for the devaluation of what is otherwise a fantastic credential, designed for people with a good deal of experience, ambition and motivation. Perhaps business schools should address the underlying issues affecting the reputation of their MBA and be more rigid in their admissions criteria.
Posted by: JMR, male, 30s, MBA graduate | February 11th, 2008 at 3:19 pm | Report this commentLeave the FT lying around where he will see it. If he’s so vain he’ll probably think this column’s about him.
Posted by: Michael | February 12th, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Report this commentApart from that, give him some tasks to take him out of his comfort zone / box.
If he applies his MBA learnings - without spelling them out - people may start to think he is smart.
Knock him flat. He is not a future leader. He is a trained administrator. All graduates think they can run the company when they start. It is not just an MBA thing.
Never hire a large consultancy. It will be full of cocksure MBA’s with virtually no experience of what they are advising about. They are there to prop up the (in)decision of the hiring manager. Never hire a consultant under 40.
The first necessary attribute to gain leadership is humility. For the first three months, smash his confidence into the ground any way you can. Consider Army Basic training or the way (real) apprentices were trained. These are/were not systems of kindness. First break them, then build them.
Posted by: Volga Pirate, Male, 56, MBA since 1976 when nobody had heard of them. | February 12th, 2008 at 1:19 pm | Report this commentA commercial apprenticeship in Switzerland starts in the firm’s post office where MBA could
Posted by: FH | February 12th, 2008 at 4:47 pm | Report this commentbegin a few weeks or even months of “sitting next to Nelly”. Then on to sales, answering enquiries, preparing offers etc. Opening an L/C is a must for MBA to learn and when the shipping docs arrive, he can check them against the Bill of Lading etc, and write necessary extra docs (letter to bank, draft, the invoice etc etc) and include them for presentation to the bank. As time is money, MBA should get to the bank asap so that the money goes into MBA’s employer’s bank account asap. This is all worth learning, as MBA might find himself in a start-up one day.
Your article brought back to mind the impression I had when I attended an LBS MBA information session a while back - strangely disappointing, not as creative as I would have wished (but nevertheless great for careers in banking and consultancy in London, but limited to that) and justifying high fees with expected high City salaries.
My advice is get creative yourselves - choose someone more creative from another business school that is better suited to your wants. LBS is not the center of the world.
Engineer, Female, 35
Posted by: P | February 12th, 2008 at 8:20 pm | Report this commentThere seems to be a lot of MBA bashing and particularly London Business School bashing here. In my time there I came accross no (read ; ZERO) students who were arrogant. All were intellectually curious and very nice people. There are insecurities in the market place from people who feel threatened because they don’t have the will to study further and like the status quo. An MBA is a management level candidate and it is unfortunate that such an amount of space was dedicated to bashing the MBA and such a reputed business School. We need to challenge ourselves to bring Britain to the next business level and not be negative towards further education.
Posted by: Chartered Accountant and LBS alumni | February 13th, 2008 at 12:13 pm | Report this commentAli. age 36, Male, Consultant
My suggestion is to hire a graduate of the LBS MSc in Finance program. They are smarter, harder working, more humble and don’t think the world owes them a thing. Further, the program cuts out all the useless bullshit of an MBA (unless you are in the business of party planning).
Posted by: LBS grad | February 13th, 2008 at 12:32 pm | Report this commentMany issues are being addressed here, most of which are nonsense. As a manager within a France-based PE fund, I have hired several MBA students over the past years and all of them have added a great degree of value-add. Last year I decided to look beyond the continent and took one guy from LBS - to be frank, I am now seeing the same problem which is being discussed and the quality of work is no better than his colleagues. Once bitten twice shy…
Posted by: John Robinson | February 13th, 2008 at 12:37 pm | Report this commentI have been pointed to this Blog by a colleague of mine from LBS.
I am very astonished to see that some of the Brightest MBA Student to be future leaders are behaving in such as way by collaborating in totally unprofessional manner.
I am also disappointed in those who do not have MBA and think MBA is about ego & unprofessionalism.
In my company such behaviour will be a disciplinary matter and sacking offence.
Those managers/leaders/executives (MBA or not MBA) who behave in such a manner should not be given leadership/management positions.
The purpose of MBA is to make you better at understanding strategic issues within you organisation so that you can create better working environment for all the stakeholders in your organisation.
I will be contacting CEO of FT & LBS and all the leading Business School to asking them to clampdown such behaviour where possible.
Furthermore, those who are doing MBA or have already completed and willingly collaborating & participating with the idiots you should be utterly ashamed of your achievement.
Those who are non MBA managers you need to grow-up. As a leader/manager/executive your sole task should be to hire & mentor people and utilise their talent to the best effect for your organisation and society as a whole. Quite honestly you are utterly disgraceful bunch of people – I am not sure how you have managed to reach a leadership/management position. You are letting your company down, your colleagues & people work for you/with you, your own family and the society.
No wonder that America & UK corporate life & social life is increasingly heading downwards.
There are no ethics, no morals, people have become very selfish indeed.
No wonder because the people we think of our future leaders/executives exhibit below acceptable standard behaviour.
Shame on you all!!!
Posted by: Alex, Partner, COO, Partner, City of London | February 13th, 2008 at 12:39 pm | Report this comment====================
One misconception about B School - and I am from LBS, is that 2 years down the line, LBS and the MBA does not change your basic character. If you were arrogant to begin with, then you will be caught up during the very rigourous admissions process. 2 years of hard studying does not and should not make one more arrogant, in fact it only makes one realise that there is still a lot to learn. You might not like it, but at the end of the day, learning is crucial to business survival and growth. What is the alternative, not learning and status quo? There are a few billion people in China, India, and now the middle east who are investing their time and money into higher learning.
Posted by: Chartered Accountant and LBS alumni | February 13th, 2008 at 12:48 pm | Report this commentHow many “bright” ideas? Most of you are probably “right”, - let’s blame LBS (or any other top tier) and other’s for “our own” failures. MBA’s tend to have a lot of energy and “can do” attitude, whereas a lot of “teams” look for “another 9-5 clone”. I had a big problem with some member of my team who had worked for the company for 19 years and really got annoyed then I got promoted. So, what? I am at work to make change happen, not to be “another faceless sheep in a flock”.
Posted by: Alex, Director, 32, BSc, MSc, MBA (LBS executive programme) | February 13th, 2008 at 1:15 pm | Report this commentI have a degree from LBS.
To Manager (male, 51):
1. An adult is a person whose character is fully formed. Personality traits are mostly a reflection of that fundamental character (barring mental illness).
2. Only adults are admitted into MBA programmes
3. An MBA programme will not change your fundamental character
4. An “arrogant MBA” is therefore a phrase with two consecutive words, not a cause and effect relationship (or vice versa)
Consider that, perhaps, your recruitment process may be flawed, or at least you didn’t catch this one. Academic qualifications are not all that a recruiter needs to look out for…
Posted by: Foluso, 32, Financial Analyst | February 13th, 2008 at 1:16 pm | Report this commentGet rid of him. He’s going to take way too much time to break in. Next time hire an LBS MBA who graduated before 2003 - that’s roughly when the fees doubled, the school started to pitch itself as a global business school (i.e. from nowhere) and the only people who could afford to go were ex-bankers and consultants who exchanged those fees for a hideous sense of entitlement. Before that date we were a much more mixed (and normal) group of people. Or hire someone who has completed the LBS Executive MBA programme - they’re usually capable of working in teams.
Posted by: Londoner, LBS Graduate | February 13th, 2008 at 1:28 pm | Report this commentFirst, generally speaking, no school, degree, job, etc, is homogenous. Though there are general behaviours and stereotypes no group of people, whether MBAs, doctors, pilots or consultants all behave the same. There are no blanket statements when describing human behaviour. There are many other factors that shape a personality and as many people can probably attest, no one has perfected an “acceptance system” that is 100% accurate. The undeserving often either slip through or change.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time at LBS and thought it was a great education. However, there were students there I was embarassed to say graduated with the same degree. That’s just life.
Second, most of the comments above are correct, however they neglect the most important point. Even if the manager is failing as a leader it doesn’t excuse the MBA’s behavior (or perception thereof). When faced with a non-responsive boss it is just as easy and sometimes easier to manage change and lead from within the team. In my 8+ years as a US military officer I often had to lead from within in order for the team to succeed. That also means pulling your weight and sometimes completing jobs that are beneath your skill level. When deployed, every Sunday the pilots that were the best leaders came out and helped the enlisted wash the aircraft - you learn a lot that way. Brazen comments and a confrontational and superior attitude do not help change a situation.
Professionalism and leadership mean doing the right thing for the team and the organization despite your personal feelings about the others on your team or your own personal goals.
Lastly, maturity and the ability to lead do not come from a school or the number of years you’ve spent in an organization. It is a trait that is developed through trials and difficult experiences like trying to initiate change with an unresponsive and difficult manager OR dealing with an arrogoant and unresponsive subordinate. I had to deal with many of these situations by the time I was 25 years old and I learned more from my mistakes than my successes.
When confronted with these difficult situations my advice is:
Posted by: Former Naval Officer and EMBA LBS Grad, 31 | February 13th, 2008 at 3:46 pm | Report this comment1) keep the big picture in mind,
2) understand how other people see the situation
3) check your ego at the door,
4) remember there are no “fast” solutions
5) and remember there are always alternatives
I am startled by the ridiculous levels of self-serving rhetoric in reply to the letter. The actions of one graduate is definitely not reflective on the whole of the LBS community.
LBS student, 28
Posted by: LBS student | February 13th, 2008 at 4:55 pm | Report this commentMost of the good points appear to have been made but I would add 2 more
1) How good is he at the job ( give him a couple of months to prove himself ) If his performance matches his attitude then fair play to him ; it might spice up a few lacklustre team members ( ? including you ? ) If he is poor then he has to go ( subject to 2) )
2) Which business are you in ?
If you’re part of say a retail bank or a major business consulting group etc then you’ll be as hampered as ever by all the internal ” checks and balances ” as they are sometimes called
May be best to encourage him to shift teams ( subject to the answer to point 1) of course )
If its a less structured / more entrepreneurial environment then your decision can be much more direct ( good or bad , for him )
My point being that there is no point trying to buck the corporate culture just because this guy may be an irritant , that just exposes you .
Posted by: alan mexocan tax inspector | February 13th, 2008 at 6:18 pm | Report this commentI was one of those! Not an MBA but a high flying PhD from a top university and thought I could change the world.
KPMG brought me down to earth. I worked with some equally cocksure but much more experienced people who tore me apart.
A lesson I never forgot. One of them came to work for me recently. Guess what I did to him?
Beware!
Posted by: Maddy | February 13th, 2008 at 8:31 pm | Report this commentHow would you deal with the same issue if he didn’t have an MBA? Treat the MBA and the school he attended as irrelevant.
Posted by: Cionnach | February 14th, 2008 at 10:45 am | Report this commentWho knows if this story is even true? Maybe it’s good entertainment to bash the top league MBA and his school. On a more serious note, it takes 2 years of hard studying and a large amount of financial investment to get an MBA. While I can understand not everyone can put their career on hold, it is still a degree and a masters level degree. Some valuable skills are learnt while at LBS. However, the process of self-education should not stop and CPD - continuous professional development should be constant throughout one’s career.
Posted by: A skeptical reader | February 14th, 2008 at 1:31 pm | Report this commentMaybe you should have employed a Manchester Business School graduate instead?
Posted by: Stephen MBS student project stage | February 14th, 2008 at 3:11 pm | Report this commentJoking aside if you do recruit someone from a school so high in the global rankings they will come with expectations of putting all that work and study to good use in your organisation. MBAs are estimated to have a life of five years ergo this graduate will be keen to maximise his/her investment ASAP. If you do not need someone of that calibre you should not have employed them.
That said I have heard criticisms of LBS on team skills, something the ‘Manchester Method’ focuses on heavily.
Its such a shame that so many apparently smart people fell into the trap of taking this question at face value. All of those (including Lucy) who offered advice on how to deal with “the MBA” passed judgement on something they know virtually nothing about and generally included a great deal of prejudice and unsubstantiated assertions.
Posted by: Different Perspective | February 14th, 2008 at 3:39 pm | Report this commentIts sad really, so much opinion so little inquiry.
I am an LBS graduate and I work for a hedge fund in London. I kick ass when it comes to technicalities, I am helpful, I like to dress up, I feel comfortable taking initiatives, I strive to exceed expectations, I am perfectly comfortable taking responsibility for both failure and success. My bosses love me and for some reason, since I joined, they are interviewing exclusively LBS for their Associates positions. As you would expect, they are all ex. MDs and VPs from the bulge brackets and large money managers, so probably they know what they’re looking for in a candidate. I feel great, but was I so ‘awesome’ before the MBA? To be honest - not really. Looking back, I think I was just a clueless, shy and insecure accountant. PS: we recruit only MBAs - no MIFs - i suspect they are generally perceived as just a bunch of boring butt-heads (good at number-crunching, nevertheless).
Posted by: Danno | February 14th, 2008 at 4:58 pm | Report this commentWe get this all the time. To quote Oliver Cromwell, “I tell you, sir, there is no other way to deal with these men but to break them in pieces.” Set him useless tasks that keep him in the office until 3am night after night and all weekend while his colleagues work on more productive and less time-consuming projects. Within a month he will be physically and mentally broken and you can do with him what you will.
Posted by: Banker, male, 37 | February 15th, 2008 at 2:23 am | Report this commentTell the scumbag that MBA stands for Means Bugger All without experience, soul and humility. Suggest that they get down and do the dirty work before they ask for a rise.
Posted by: MBA tutor, male, 49 | February 15th, 2008 at 2:25 am | Report this commentAssign him a task reflecting the size of his ego. This is a win for you either way: if he succeeds then his sense of self-worth was right all along and you have a prodigy; otherwise, you will have cut him down to size without blood on your hands.
Posted by: Banker, male, 39 | February 15th, 2008 at 2:27 am | Report this commentI am an MBA and was bullied by people like you who lacked intellect but held high positions. Eventually I was fired, which was fine by me as I went on to find a job where I was more appreciated.
Posted by: MBA, male, 30s | February 15th, 2008 at 2:29 am | Report this commentWe will self-police this. If we can get a hint as to who it is, we will talk to him offline. This is not the kind of behaviour that is reflective of LBS graduates.
Posted by: 'LBS Class of 2007' graduate | February 15th, 2008 at 2:30 am | Report this commentThat last comment is a bit sinister. If attending LBS means you are sentenced to a lifetime of scrutiny by some self-appointed cabal of enforcers, I think I’ll do my MBA elsewhere.
Posted by: Male, anon | February 15th, 2008 at 2:32 am | Report this commentI have an MBA and also a Master’s degree in Physics. So from on intellectual point of view I think I can rate the intellect required to do an MBA which is not very high. Besides, smartness comes in many different forms and shapes.
Posted by: MBA grad | February 15th, 2008 at 9:05 am | Report this commentEducation (formal or not) is just a tool in the work place nothing more. Nothing replaces experience. It’s the speed at which one acquires knowledge/experience and converts this into (team) execution that determines success.
Thus in conclusion give him a ‘humbling’ task, ie challenging in size but one which requires lots of input from what he considers inferior intellectual colleagues.
This company is not worth working for so the MBA`graduate should get out fast. What reputable company with good internal processes systems has one of its senior managers asking for advice on one of its employees on an online chat and in such a stereotypical manner. What has his MBA and London Business School got to do with his behaviour? Did the manager confront him about his behaviour and he confirmed that its because he has an MBA and went to LBS? How about just human nature! I have come across employees from all walks of life who when they walk into a new job behave in a manner that is perceived to be arrogant/not being a team player etc. Has it ever occurred to the manager that being part of a team takes time and that the old team members also play a part in making someone new feel comfortable and accepted? Higher education or MBA bashing does not do any business any good because no matter what the people who have not had access to this type of education may think, people’s minds are much broader after being exposed to this type of education. It is good for a business to have both kinds of people. Any well managed business should be able to accomodate both and have a proper induction process to make sure everyone feels at home. It sounds like this company doesn’t have that.
I made the mistake of joining a firm which had so called experienced leaders at the top who felt threatened by anything new and had the world view that any form of higher education was not valuable. I had the misfortune of having to be managed by one of these guys and ended up being fired and accused of not being a team player and arrogant because of my MBA from a top tier school. The bottom line was that both him and the company had no experience working with people withan enquiring mind and felt threatened by the smallest things. I am all the better for it and the regret I have is that I did not thoroughly research the attitude of the people I was going to work with. Stereotyping is a sure sign that the people and the company you are working for is bad. I hope that the MBA eventually finds out that his line manager is getting advice about him on some online chat web…if he does I would urge him to get out fast. The people and the company are not worth his time.
Posted by: MBA graduate | February 15th, 2008 at 3:21 pm | Report this commentThat’s what happens when you don’t hire an MBA holder from a notoriously prestigious french Grande Ecole.
Regards,
Posted by: thomas | February 16th, 2008 at 3:45 pm | Report this commentTom
The level of insecurity fostered by so-called managers in the workplace in the City of London is disgraceful.
Many who complain about “cocky” young people are only afraid of their own demise and will do everything in their power to ban together against these people. I have seen it happen in my workplace and have heard the story told over and over again.
An MBA or any other driven and ambitious individual in not the enemy to the organisation. The insecure, vindictive and ill-educated so-called managers are. They pose a barrier to the advancement of most organisations because of their plot to overthrow anyone, whether it be “foreigners or graduates” who dare to think out of the box or challenge their complacency.
My advice is for the people who feel so threatened by the ambitious, motivated and driven new faces of London’s workplace, is to either get yourselves educated or step aside.
We are here, we are educated, we will displace you, so get used to it and stop whinging.
Posted by: Trisha | February 16th, 2008 at 10:17 pm | Report this commentHe should read a book called “Your Money and Your Brain” by Jason Zweig. As Lucy is certain he won’t stay around for long, make this his parting gift.
Posted by: Tom | February 17th, 2008 at 2:57 am | Report this commentI have an mba too but work along quietly with all the others and making tea and coffee for them too when we have meetings. so if people around you know that you have an mba then dont let it hang out and work along quietly I have reaped the benefits of this approach in several places by now.
Posted by: MICHAEL STEVENS | February 17th, 2008 at 10:57 am | Report this commentThis is where a recruitment agency comes in to appraise both parties and establish judgement on the fit, and if generous enough advise them both equally, at the company cost by the way! Both deserve a better future!
Cheers!
Posted by: Augustin, Graduate Student | February 18th, 2008 at 11:51 am | Report this commentSome thoughts:
Posted by: Andrew (male, 41, director) | February 19th, 2008 at 12:10 am | Report this comment“It’s all about trust.” I think that answer to the question about teamwork was what got me a place at LBS. I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean to Male Manager 51, but I trust him to know what to make of it. In defence of LBS, yes, it has its fair share of a**eh***s. Speaking of which, may I plug “The No Arsehole Rule”, by Robert Sutton, professor of management science at Stanford University: at very least, a good read.
It seems to me that the higher up you go, the more servant-like your job becomes: to manage - vb. to help other people do their jobs well.
Once a friend of mine was confided in by the law firm partner for whom she worked that a new senior lawyer “wasn’t working out.” My friend turned round to the partner and upbraided him. “Your job,” she said, “is to hub him,” the partner, from Yorkshire, recoiled, “to hug him until it hurts and then, and only then, if it does not work out, it does not work out.” That senior lawyer became a partner at the same firm. I’d like to think he should thank my friend (not that she cares).
And, finally, Male Manager 51, I take it you haven’t take said obnoxious LBS MBA with attitude out with his colleagues and got him thoroughly and nauseatingly pissed, on a school night, of course. Cheers.
Andrew (male, 41, director)
Some comments:
Posted by: Andrew (male, 41, director) | February 19th, 2008 at 12:25 am | Report this comment“It’s all about trust,” in response to the question on teamwork was the answer that I like to think got me a place at LBS. I’m not sure exactly what to make of it but Male Manager 51 may have a better idea than me.
In LBS’s defence, I’m sure it has its fair share of a**eh***s. With reference to which, may I plug “The No Arsehole Rule” by Robert Sutton, professor of management science at Stanford Universtity: at least a good read.
It seems to me that the higher up the corporate ladder you climb, the more servant-like your job becomes: to manage - vb. to help other people do their jobs well.
Some years ago a law firm partner said to a friend of mine about a newly recruited senior lawyer, “It’s not working out.” She upbraided him. “Your job,” she said, “is to hug him,” the partner, from Yorkshire, flinched, “to hug him until it hurts and then, and only then, if it is not working out, it is not working out.” The senior lawyer became a partner with the same firm.
I assume that Male Manager 51 has not yet taken LBS MBA with attitude out for a drink with his colleagues and got him thoroughly and nauseatingly drunk, on a school night? Cheers!
Andrew, 41, male, director
Why everybody instantly accepts the boss’s version of the story? I have an MBA from a top US business school and worked in a British investment bank for a short time. My supervisor there was just like you, old school, very insecured and vindictive, which probably because he just has a BA in History. My performance was excellent but he kept hinting that he would rather hire an undergraduate in accounting. Eventually I could not stand it and moved to a US bank where MBAs were much more appreciated.
Director, Female, 40
Posted by: Alex | February 20th, 2008 at 10:17 am | Report this commentAny MBA worth his or her salt is going to be cocksure. If they are smart, and they should be, they know that they better not waste time getting to their level, which in their mind is probably CEO.
If you are not looking for people who can potentially become top management then you should not be hiring MBA’s.
The best way forward is to give the MBA a real challenge and the freedom to succeed or fail - a process in which the potential financial cost/reward vastly exceeds the inflated starting salary that you are probably paying. Your role as manager is to be a coach, and as good corporate executive to cut losses early if it seems likely that the MBA will fail.
Having hired a lot of MBA’s myself, I think the most important aspect is to be very thorough in the selection process. Many will fail and it should be looked at in the same way as a major capital investment.
54, Male, Vice President
Posted by: Chris | February 21st, 2008 at 10:26 am | Report this commentBeing a graduate student in economics, I am honestly amazed by the high regard everyone in here seems to have for “MBA’s”. Knowing what their curricula is, and their requirements to “survive” the mba, I can assure you it has NO comparison with economics. The level of logic, math, time-management skills, and perspective in economics programs, (even in just a masters) is far superior than in most MBA programmes.
Posted by: U.S female, 24 | February 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pm | Report this commentChances are the LBS MBA is wrong to thing so highly of himself, when in reality all he knows to do is to spit models he surely does not know how to derive or why they work.
To U.S female,
Posted by: Chris | February 22nd, 2008 at 9:57 am | Report this commentThere are many kinds of MBA I suppose. The type I presumed the thread was about is done as a second degree. The high flyers typically did one degree, then worked a few years, and then did an MBA.
I am more amazed at the lack of structured or sensible sentences written here by FT readers.
No wonder there is so much jealousy and anger against the well educated.
Most managers in the various industries in the UK really need to realise that the days of pretending and sleeping on the job are numbered.
There is a new and improved set of graduates who are serious about contributing to the success of their respective organisations and are ready to do it by any means necessary.
Good Luck to all empty suits - especially those who are not able to effectively express their concerns, and suggest solutions.
Posted by: KIM - SVP 45 | February 23rd, 2008 at 10:19 pm | Report this comment