July 31, 2008
‘I’m torn between loyalty and greener pastures’
I have worked for a small, struggling publishing company for five years and the boss and owner is a decent man I have a lot of respect for. I have just returned from six months’ leave to write a book, but in my second week back have been offered a grander, better-paid job at a major publishing house. I would jump at it, but I feel I have a debt of honour to my boss. He allowed me to take time off when it was inconvenient to him, the unspoken agreement being that I would remain loyal for at least a while on my return. If I resign now he will be rightly angry. But should I do it anyway?
Publisher, female, 34
Lucy’s Answer
You are right to feel uneasy. To sidle off now would be a low thing to do. Understandable, but still low.
Most of us can dispense with loyalty to our employers as they show none to us. Your employer is not a faceless company but a decent man who has done you a favour.
Luckily, there is an easy way to solve your problem: talk to him. Tell him you have been approached. Tell him you feel tempted. Tell him that you feel under an obligation to him.
It is quite possible he will be relieved. To pay one fewer salary when he is struggling may make him feel Christmas has come early. And as he survived without you for six months, he may not be worried about doing so indefinitely. If this is right, you can both wave farewell fondly and heave your separate sighs of relief.
Equally, it is possible - given what a decent fellow he isthat he will want to keep you but will also understand that small, poor companies can’t keep good people for ever, and see five years as a fair whack.
There is another chance (smaller, I think) that he won’t take it so well, and will protest that you have broken your unspoken deal.
If he takes this line, you must make that upspoken deal spoken, agree a minimum length of service and serve it with good grace. Then you can assuage your thwarted ambition with the thought that a decent boss whom you respect is rare. One who allows you to go off and write books is rarer still.
If you do stay, there is a risk you may be rewarded by losing your job as times are hard, and small struggling publishers may well fold. Yet you would not necessarily be safe in the big one either: it might not go under, but could well fire first the last one to have been hired.
It depends on your overall satisfaction with your current job and your expectations for the new one. Are you content with your tasks, responsibilities, perspectives, work climate and salary? Do you only want to change because of the better pay and the glamour of the brand or because you see potential for growth in your new role and will better fit into their corporate culture? In assessing your options, I would not be too much driven by loyalty but by your own well-being, as in general I do not think an employer would be too loyal to you.
Posted by: beatrice | July 31st, 2008 at 9:02 am | Report this commentMaybe he feels that he has a debt to you after 5 years, to keep you on the staff even though the company is stuggling. That’s why he jumped at the chance to give you 6 months (presumably unpaid) leave - you might be doing him a favour by leaving. He might even have a good offer himself but can’t pull the plug on the company while he is responsible for the rest of you.
If he can’t offer the terms necessary to find someone else to fill the position then maybe that shows it’s time to call it a day for him.
I know similar companies and it is important to remember that they are not charities serving the greater good. The first company I worked at survived on loyalty and hope in a similar way. It’s closed now and all the people who worked there (including the owner) now have better jobs.
Of course that’s the easy way to rationalise it, but on the other hand maybe it isn’t like that. All I can say is that companies don’t own people. Every manager has to live with staff turnover and while nice guys tend to have a lower turnover of staff, it is never zero. If you are really expected to be tied into this company in a deeper way than an ordinary employee then you should have shares in it - or there should ahve been a written agreement about the time off.
Of course all of this leaves aside the question of work-life balance and if a grander job at a major publishing house will make you happier anyway.
Posted by: Samec, 30 | July 31st, 2008 at 9:02 am | Report this commentI think you’ve answered your question - ‘I would jump at it, but I feel a debt of honour…’
If you stay, you will undoubtedly wonder what you may be missing out on. In time you might regret not taking the leap and may come to resent your boss, which would be a real pity as he sounds a thoroughly decent person.
If you go, you may well find out that the grass isn’t greener…but you will never find out if you stay where you are. A grander job alone wouldn’t be worth leaving for, but a better paid one? Well, take a look around at small companies that are struggling now. I hate to join the ranks of the financial Cassandras but the economic climate is likely to worsen considerably, and in months to come you might rue the day you turned down that better paid job at that bigger, less vulnerable company.
My advice - jump at it. Don’t use ‘honour’ as a cloak for your procrastination.
Posted by: GLH, female, 30, manager | July 31st, 2008 at 9:25 am | Report this commentIt is business, not personal.
Posted by: Jesse | July 31st, 2008 at 10:07 am | Report this commentJust take the better offer - no one will thank you for loyalty when the going gets tough
Posted by: Anne | July 31st, 2008 at 12:16 pm | Report this commentMy mother would advise “Do what you think is best, dear”. No doubt your nearest and dearest are offering similar words of wisdom, and they are right. You are the only person who can answer this question.
It seems to me you don’t have to worry about your employability. Your current boss kept your position open, you have another unsolicited offer on the table, and you are 34 years old with experience and the beginnings of a reputation. The world is your oyster.
A boss that you respect, and one prepared to give you a sabbatical to follow your star, now that is a rare commodity. Certainly rare enough to weigh in the scale against a bit more money and the fleeting satisfaction of a grander job.
You decision depends a lot on where you see yourself going in the medium term. Presumably you don’t see yourself as a writer or you would never have returned from your sabbatical. If you have decided that you really want a high flying career in publishing then some experience with a bigger firm is attractive - and I would be looking more at the learning opportunity than the money.
Debts of honour are denominated in an old fashioned currency, but like the Canadian Gold Maple Leaf, they have an abiding value especially when times are rough. At the very least you can look the world straight in the eye and it won’t do your reputation in the small world of publishing any harm either. Servicing this debt does not mean you have to stay for 20 years and will make you (and others) feel good about yourself.
Try and decide where you want to go in the next few years. When you have decided, you can discuss with your current boss whether your ambition will fit his possibilities, and you can measure the new job offer against your own plans. “Do what you think is best” - it is not bad advice.
Posted by: Chris J | July 31st, 2008 at 3:23 pm | Report this commentWhy not talk with your boss and tell him about the other offer? He might respond with a raise, then you’d have the best of both worlds. If the company you’re at is struggling so much that they might go under soon, you should be thinking about that too.
Posted by: betty | July 31st, 2008 at 5:15 pm | Report this commentThis is not the moment for soundbites, but if you want loyalty, get a dog. Your problem reminds me of a similar situation I found myself in a few years ago, when my boss gave me the responsibility of handling the IPO of a major supplier of luxury beverages in continental Europe. Needless to say, I cannot go into details, but, after having spent a few weeks on a champagne-loaded roadshow, it was starting to dawn on me that the de rigeur method of bookkeeping in the country/industry in question did not quite translate into what we had marketed in the prospect. At the same time, I had gotten a major offer from another bank, and was now faced with the choice of taking the job with everyone still in the dark, or stay on and take the fall for a project that would never float. I will leave it to the readers to have a guess what happened.
When talking about debts these days, it is important to remember that we are in a credit crunch, and this should also apply to debts of “honour”. From what you are describing to me, it sounds like your boss is trying some sort of emotional blackmail. Loyalty is a good thing, as long as you know who you are being loyal to. My advice to you would be that if you are working for a boss that is foolish enough to let you go on your little spree of self realisation, with not even a gentlemen’s agreement in return, than I can only say that you will be doing both him and yourself a favour by waking out the door and pocketing the bigger paycheck.
You write that his publishing company is struggling. No wonder why. It’s time to get serious. If you want a real job, go get it. It’s really a win-win, a new job for you, lesson learned for Mr. Softguy. He should send you a thank you note alongside your last paycheck.
Best of luck,
Posted by: Stellan Sjögreen | July 31st, 2008 at 8:57 pm | Report this commentStellan Sjögreen, banker, 39
You should treat this as a business issue,
If your leave was unpaid, how long can the business that you say is struggling afford to pay your remuneration which is now a new cost?
If your leave was paid, then there might be a case for some sort of claw-back. Be sure to apply common sense and company policies, not debts of honor in arriving at the claw-back.
You’ll also want to look at how your duties were covered during the leave, and whether your boss will need a replacement for you.
If he does, offer to help find the replacement
If he doesn’t maybe the job you returned to is not very secure
Last but not least, do your due diligence on the prospective new company, to make sure you’re not going from the frying pan to the fire.
In other words,open your eyes and don’t tie your own hands.
Ed, 52, male, executive search consultant
Posted by: Ed Wooller | July 31st, 2008 at 11:05 pm | Report this commentLoyalty is a wonderful thing.
But if the business is struggling and can no longer support the number of employees it has, loyalty can only go so far.
If you stay in the current job, you may find that in a couple of months’ time your boss is apologising profusely (and genuinely feeling bad for you) at the same time as handing you a redundancy checque.
Don’t feel bad about leaving - you need to be loyal first to yourself and your future, and as long as your job lines up with that future, to your job. But don’t be so foolish as to remain loyal to your job or boss at the expense of your own future.
Posted by: Ben, 25, male, Business Analyst | August 1st, 2008 at 1:45 am | Report this commentI can’t believe that even I find this one naive. Tell him you’ve had a better offer. If he can’t match it, tell him you’re very sorry but need to do what’s right for you and your family.
Blind loyalty is rarely repaid, in my experience.
Posted by: AW, female, Director, 37 | August 1st, 2008 at 2:50 am | Report this commentThis is an emotional issue, as the rational answer is obvious. One way to justify the fast exit, to yourself, is that if you want to be successful in your career, which it sounds as though you do, then you have to play in the premier league. I am sure the small outfit has greater autonomy, with the benefit of flexibility, but unless you have been at the top of the industry you will never realize your true potential. Even if the big shop politics is not for you, at least get the experience and then go back to start ups/struggling businesses where you will really be able to add value.
Posted by: Mr T, Director | August 1st, 2008 at 11:51 am | Report this commentDo you want the new job yes or no? If yes, then have an honest conversation with your boss about your loyality to the company but it would be career madness to let the opportunity pass you by - he seems sensible enough and he doesn’t own you even if there is a debt, but are you sure the new job is a concrete offer? If no, then why you wobbling?
Posted by: Stuart, 43, Assistant Director, London | August 1st, 2008 at 1:27 pm | Report this commentThe poster doesn’t write about her family life. If she is planning at some point soon to start a family then the comapny which has already proven itself to be supportive might be best.
Posted by: Samec, 30 | August 1st, 2008 at 10:12 pm | Report this commentIs there a way I can shaft my kind, loyal boss and enjoy my shiny new job without experiencing those very inconvenient feelings of deep guilt and shame ?
Err…..No.
Posted by: Phil | August 4th, 2008 at 1:01 pm | Report this commentTake the job. Opportunity only knocks once. Had a similar situation where I was offered an academic position. Loyalty made me stay as my employer in the US had invested a million dollars in my lab. within six months and 5 patents issued, pink slip and dumped green card application. Big mistake, ended up unemployed for almost a year. Take the job before the door closes, unless its a US pblishing house of course! -
Posted by: Harper | August 4th, 2008 at 2:00 pm | Report this commentYou have answered your own question. You know that if the unspoken agreement was that you would stay around for a while, then that is what you should do. It isn’t a question of loyalty, which depressingly many readers here seem to feel is some kind of quaint anachronism. Quite simply the question is this- are you are good for your word or not? Would you really prefer the reputation that your word only holds good until a better offer comes along? Who knows, you might not even be saying goodbye to that other opportunity either. Your future employer might even respect you the more for your decision.
Posted by: Eric 46 Male Banker | August 4th, 2008 at 2:23 pm | Report this commentDiscuss it with your boss. You will sleep better with a clear conscience and if you cannot sleep properly you will not make a success of a new highly paid and probably highly stressful job. If he is a decent guy whom you respect he is likely to give you valuable advice.
Posted by: John | August 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm | Report this commentHow far can you trust the major publishing house? They sound unscrupulous to me. If you don’t match their expectations and they dump you after three months you will struggle to find a new job after dumping your decent boss.
If he says he cannot match them and gives you his blessing then at least you will have a good reference if things don’t work out.
Also, ignore advice from people who have chosen not to read the data supplied with the question
John, 62, male, consultant
Request a meeting or lunch with your boss. Explain to him your dilemma. He will respect your honesty, admire your courage, be flattered at your wish not to discard your loyalty and understand the attraction of the rival job. He should also declare his hand - which will be either sufficient to make you stay, or determine your departure. Either way, you win.
Posted by: Jules | August 4th, 2008 at 2:41 pm | Report this commentIf you have to ask this question at all it is clear that you would prefer to accept the other job, but your conscience is troubling you. You don’t seem to think of yourself as a writer, as it is very unlikely the ‘new’ employer will give you the chance of another sabbatical unless, of course, you can negotiate this into your deal. On the other hand, if you were enjoying the old job so much you wouldn’t have taken the sabbatical in the first place.
Posted by: Laurence | August 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm | Report this commentAs the credit crunch solidly brings back some of the more old-fashioned values, you should stay loyal for some time - new offers will appear at a more appropriate time.
Posted by: Allan, 48, male, fund manager | August 4th, 2008 at 3:12 pm | Report this commentI’m struggling with a similar dilemma right now, except that I’ve only recently joined company #1, and company #1 is considered (and considers itself) a powerhouse in its field, rather than struggling. It also offers perks that are likely unmatchable. Company #2, on the other hand, is not as well known in this country, and cannot provide the same perks, but is nonetheless well-known internationally, and the position fits what I do exceedingly well.
Posted by: Sasha, 35, female, researcher | August 4th, 2008 at 3:17 pm | Report this commentI was already inclined to take the position at company #2, but reading the above comments has been extremely helpful in thinking through the decision.
Thank you!
A company never would be so emotional with you, if they decided to fire you. Despite, you have been an efficient employee in the past.
It is very important to consider properly issues like: paycheck, challenging business environment, real career development posibilities, company tough fundamentals, and last but not least, if it is the best option for you “personal” career. If some of them are on the positive side for you, be rational and just get it.
You “are” your decisions, and remenber, in this life, you will only regret about what you didn’t do, not about what you did.
Posted by: Amadeo, male, 41, Sales director | August 4th, 2008 at 3:24 pm | Report this commentAmbitious 34-year-old employees would not request six months leave to write a book - any more than ambitious owners of small business’s would grant it – and neither would they need to seek the reassurance of others before accepting the offer of a grander, better-paid job with a more prestigious employer.
Instead, I suspect that your offer has triggered a dilemma - you feel that you ought to be ambitious, but the prospect unsettles you.
Deciding that you are more comfortable without ambition is not ‘wrong’, but it does have a tendency to prove irreversible and, before you do, you might consider this:
In a few years, offers will no longer come your way, and you will no longer need to fret over whether to accept. Instead, you will be free to reflect upon what might once have been, and now never will be.
Posted by: Jan, 63, Male, Director | August 4th, 2008 at 3:36 pm | Report this commentIf that prospect bothers you, accept the offer – NOW
Of course you should resign. He wouldn’t think twice about making you redundant if the future of the company depended on it. Make sure the offer from the larger company includes the ability for them to pay any monies you may owe your current company due to the leave you have just taken.
Posted by: Stefan | August 4th, 2008 at 3:55 pm | Report this commentIf you simply resign you will carry with you the reputation and suspicion that you spent the time off really looking for something. Writing the book was an excuse…
Does this matter? In my industry it does, a lot. I would not recruit an analyst who has left a previous job on bad terms of his own doing.
It’s a small world and you don’t want 5 years from now a bad reference to ruin an even greater job opportunity.
You can ignore this if your current boss is a complete zero in your industry and on his way to retirement. Then you should not have gone back in the first place. (who was doing your job while you were away?)
Otherwise, I would do this:
Tell your new company about your arrangements with the existing job. Get a written contract with proper compensation if they retreat their offer. You will start on December 1st.
(You probably have 3-4 months notice anyway in your contract..)
Then stay at your old company and help them find your replacement. You will save your reputation, get a great future reference and get the new job.
In the meantime you have trained a new person and you know who to head-hunt to join you later when you grow your team…
Posted by: Marco, 43, Fund manager | August 4th, 2008 at 6:31 pm | Report this commentEarly in my career, one of the owners of the company I worked for, made the following sage remark: “what is best for you, is best for the company.”
If there is a better job for you, perhaps someone looking for a job will fit into your current role like a glove.
Posted by: Craig | August 4th, 2008 at 8:39 pm | Report this commentApologise and go. You are on an upward career path, stop now and you may go backwards. Your boss should feel pleased for you if he is as decent as you think. I know I would and I have lost good people in similar circs.
Posted by: Dr.M.A.Porteous | August 4th, 2008 at 9:16 pm | Report this commentMurray 60, consultant in psychometrics.
It’s actually a win win situation.
Talk to your boss once you have accepted the offer. Leave a time window for you to remain at your present job in order to find and train an appropriate replacement if there isn’t one.
Be very frank and pay back any paid vacation or other paid leave. Leave on a good note. Any boss realizes that no one will work at the same job forever and your boss thinks the same way.
It actually would be a plus for him since you would be able to assist this company once you are at your new firm.
Posted by: mt;lyorel | August 5th, 2008 at 12:03 am | Report this commentYou already worked for him for 5 years of you productive life, there’s nothing left to pay. Prior to going, just consider if this is the best you can get… 2 weeks back and you just got a better offer… There might be other even better opportunities, or not…
If the company is in a good or bad business condition is irrelevant for your altruistic dilemma, except for what it means for your future in terms of opportunities…
Posted by: Leandro, Male, 29, M&A Advisor | August 5th, 2008 at 1:21 am | Report this commentIf you were tragically killed in the morning your colleagues/clients would say ” that’s terrible…… so who’s going to do their job now?” Is there any room for sentiment in business - probably not, but there is room for honour. Exit honourably.
Posted by: Conor | August 5th, 2008 at 9:30 am | Report this commentNo commercially-minded boss would allow his best staff to take six month’s leave based on an unspoken agreement of loyalty, especially if the business is struggling. Is this really someone who is going to grow the company and, with it, your career?
He took a needless risk with his business, the foolishness of which doesn’t confer on you any moral obligation to correct his mistake. Don’t even wait for him to match the offer - take the other job and move on.
Posted by: David, 35, Male, Director | August 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am | Report this commentWhat the heck, take the job!!!
Posted by: Slava | August 5th, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Report this commentReach out and touch the stars - you can get a lot more than your eyes can see…
Loyalty is admirable but at the end of the day - it doesnt buy steak ! ! Have the honest conversation with your boss and part on good terms. Publishing is a small world and you dont want to burn your bridges.
Best of Luck.
Posted by: Gary, 51, M, Sr Mgr | August 5th, 2008 at 1:53 pm | Report this commentloyalty to people, never to companies
Posted by: mano lin | August 5th, 2008 at 6:22 pm | Report this commentGo for it!
You’ll regret it some day if you don’t
Posted by: sylvia m | August 5th, 2008 at 7:34 pm | Report this commentDecide what you want, Then -
If its the new job, step up and tell your boss. He either makes it worth your while to stay or you take the new Job.
If you aren’t sure you want the new job. Shut your trap and appreciate what you have.
Loyalty is a wonderful thing and a flexible boss is something to be valued. Nether mans much when unemplyed.
My family had several fairly young and devoted emplyees that where showered with perks. Much later when I asked them they said that they would have rather had no perks and more money. If your boss granted you the time to pursue you glee hug him send him christmas cards and save him in a flood but don’t assume he will sell his house to see you rent is paid in a depression.
Good luck, at least you cared to ask.
Posted by: Mike D | August 5th, 2008 at 8:35 pm | Report this commenttake the grand job. But, let’s face it, ALL of publishing is struggling. The small houses will be the first to bite the dust, but the large ones that have no plan surviving in the digital age will tank eventually too. Your best bet is to ditch the (print) publishing biz completely.
Posted by: patricia | August 5th, 2008 at 8:57 pm | Report this commentI was faced with a similar situation some time ago, when I was offered an attractive job and resolved to leave my position with a major accounting firm but allowed myself to be talked into staying by my boss, who played on my feelings of guilt by pointing out how much he had invested in developing me. I declined the offer, received pats on the back from half a dozen of the partners, initially felt smug self-satisfaction for resisting temptation, and within 6 months had realised that I’d made a mistake. Within a year of rejecting that job offer, I was actively soliciting other offers and left to take up a similar position to the one that I had initially rejected.
I am not suggesting that you “shaft” your current employer by leaving him in the lurch,but let’s face facts - he has survived 6 months without you while you were on leave. Given that he has taken you back on staff subsequently, he clearly has not formed the view that you are dispensable - but on the other hand, if you have a frank discussion with him about the fact that you would like to pursue this other opportunity but you would also like his blessing, he may accept that it is in everyone’s best interests that he allow you to go.
Posted by: Gene, 37, male banker | August 7th, 2008 at 10:17 am | Report this commentAlthough I think she should leave, I don’t agree with what other people say, that some kind of neutral option is talking to the manager to see where he stands.
Very few managers in that situation would beg someone to stay, or match another offer, or even tell someone they felt there was an obligation for that person to stay.
Saying, “Well boss, I’ve been offered another job so what do you say?” is pretty much a way of resigning or opening negotiations for a pay rise both of which could well be perceived as disloyal so soon after she came back.
Also, what about that book. Is either publishing company publishing it? I always thought the point of working in publishing was that it’s one of a few ways in to the closed shop which is book-writing.
Posted by: Samec, 30 | August 7th, 2008 at 5:00 pm | Report this commentI’m neither in publishing nor business, but I do manage a small team in an academic NGO. I can see myself being in the boss’ position, encouraging personal/professional growth by granting LWOP. I would definitely feel betrayed by a subordinate who I deem to have taken advantage of my goodwill. Like publishing, I inhabit a small world professionally, and while I would not be purposefully vindictive, neither would I be likely to robustly recommend this person. Astute listeners can, of course, interpret between the lines.
It strikes me that you have an attribute apparently not commonly owned by several of the commentators - decency. I applaud you for it. Find a way to make this a win-win situation; many of the above comments offer excellent suggestions. But for your own peace of mind, do not simply up and leave.
Len, 52, male, research manager
Posted by: Len | August 8th, 2008 at 11:42 am | Report this commentFor a small company arranging six months leave is pretty challenging. It may be right for you to take this new opportunity, but you certainly owe it to your boss to discuss it.
Posted by: Peter Dunkley | August 8th, 2008 at 2:08 pm | Report this commentyou owe your boss nothing frankly. You do owe it to yourself to act honourably and honestly.
Talk to the guy and see what his view is. What would he have done if your book had been an international bestseller? Would he have expected you to stay?
If you were really ambitious then you would be talking to your boss about taking equity in the struggling company and turning your efforts into turning it around but as it is you are simply looking for another employed position.
Posted by: Stuart - FD | August 9th, 2008 at 8:23 am | Report this commentit’s great to respect your boss, but don’t allow loyalty to cloud your business judgement…remember, they would have no qualms cutting YOU if they needed to.
Posted by: mark e | August 11th, 2008 at 3:39 pm | Report this commentWork out what you really want to do and then talk to him, explain your situation and your thinking, if he is a decent man, as you say, then he will empathise with your situation and want to do best by you. The argument that “…this is business…” rarely holds in a small business environment where every employee is a ‘key-employee’ and where certain individuals have built up a decent length of service. It will soften the blow if you offer to remain in situ until a replacement is found (or offer to do the recruitment yourself) and to ensure a pain-free transition (knowledge and contact transfer etc.) Good luck and remember, in business (at least)bigger is not necessarily better, don’t fully write-off the opportunity of staying with your present employer, moving up the pecking order and taking the company in the direction you want.
Posted by: John - Founder & CEO | August 12th, 2008 at 9:50 am | Report this commentIt saddens me that you need to ask this question. You should speak to your boss, explain the situation and assure him of your commitment. Your word is your bond. Unfortunately, that basic principle has been increasingly diluted over the last 20 years or so.
Posted by: A65Bill | August 14th, 2008 at 6:18 pm | Report this commentWould you really want to leave to work for someone who does not respect the place for integrity in business? Some, indeed many, are prepared to adopt the hostility of life as a mercenary, few survive with any self-respect.
A65Bill, 57, male, SME Interventionist