May 18, 2007
Death to American spies
This morning I called upon a senior member of the Pakistani government in his rather splendid offices in Islamabad. You will be pleased to know that he seems unruffled by current events. Karachi, he informed me, has gone back to normal after Sunday’s killings. As for Monday’s murder of a senior Supreme Court official, this was – “A most unfortunate incident, but these things happen.”
Meanwhile in Peshawar, the police have discovered the severed limbs of the suicide bomber who blew up a hotel there earlier this week. He had thoughtfully taped a little note to his leg, which read – “Death to American spies.” This is a bit of a downer, since I’m planning to travel to Peshawar tomorrow morning in the company of some Americans. I hope none of them are spies.
It is a pleasure reading about all of this stuff in the Pakistani newspapers, because of their charmingly archaic language. A report in “The News” this morning contains this account of an unsuccessful attempt to interview the police in Peshawar: “Despite making a promise of calling back, no contact was made with this scribe from the Central Police Office.”
In yesterday’s “The News” there was a splendid editorial decrying a recent gun battle between the Afghan and Pakistani armies – those well-known allies in the war on terror. It said sternly that the army could not stand idle, if foreign troops “came frolicking across the border.” If only all armies frolicked. They would seem so much less beastly and threatening.
Glad that our favourite scribe Mr. Rachman is having a jolly time frolicking around Pakistan
For all the American spies’ (and their masters’) shouting about Iran and North Korea, the real frightening country is surely the nuclear-armed Pakistan with its huge and expanding Talibanised areas bordering Afghanistan (no prizes for guessing where Messrs. Bin Laden and Omar currently reside) and its military and intelligence services that are thoroughly infiltrated by the Salafi-Jihadi ideologues.
(Let’s not forget that the Taliban was sponsored by the Pakistani military intelligence).
That the US consider Pakistan and its unconvincingly disguised military dictator as allies in the war against terror and use it as a base to foment terrorist attacks on Iran’s eastern borders is likely to prove another tragic misjudgement of major proportions.
Posted by: Pacifist | May 18th, 2007 at 11:36 am | Report this commentWho created this bloody and dangerous country of PAKISTAN. It is the BRITISH WHITE AND AMERICANS. NOW YOU ARE COMPLAINING OF THREAT TO WORLD SECURITY and ANTI-International communicty activities…lol
Posted by: shivaM | May 18th, 2007 at 3:15 pm | Report this commentI think what Shivam is saying is irresponsible. Blaming others for problems of your contries is the answer of the weak. Pakistanis are responsible for their country. The hatred like that can not be tolerated.
Posted by: John | May 18th, 2007 at 4:35 pm | Report this commentWhen Pakistan achienves smth, ppl there say ‘Its we’, when something bad happens they say ‘Its they’. No Pakistani univerity is in top 500 schools worldwide, perhaps you should get proper education, not the purely religious one that inspires hatred.
Why your religious leaders didn’t stop the bloodshed?? Why your economy is bad shape?? South East Asia was once colony but is prospering, on average economic studies suggest that countries that were colonised are 40% better off than those that were not. This article was in Economist couple of months ago.
Dear Gideon,
Welcome to the world permeated by … nationally low seratonin levels & grave feelings of chronic injustice, entrenched feelings of moral and spiritual superiority that needs to be propagated and multiplied, an anglicized media savvy touch to official responses where safeguading the ‘image of the country’ is more important than improving its reality, where lives mean nothing but honor is uber all, where (nearly) all men grow beards and an equally large amount love bollywood movies, where principles of ‘hudaibiya’ govern relations between allies and enemies, where women are child bearing machines equal to one-fourth the worth of the manliest among all nations’ men, where 40 families control most of national wealth, where martial conquest of non-belivers by overt or covert means drives a sense of national purpose, where foreign debt fogiveness is the main driver of national growth, where monuments are erected to a nuclear bomb, where the shooting, bombing, hanging, strangulation of opposition politicians, current presidents, overthrown-presidents, cricket coaches…merely - just happen!
Welcome again, and watch your back.
The friendly, and nice little islamic republic is now everybody’s problem.
Gesundheit
Posted by: gesundheit | May 18th, 2007 at 5:04 pm | Report this commentTo John: I think you are misreading ShivaM. It sounds as if he is a Hindu attacking Pakistanis.
For sure, it is correct that India was partitioned as a result of the British machinations and that partition was a tragedy but, given the huge rise in Hindu nationalism and the increasing bad deal that the Muslims get in India, one wonders if the Hindu chauvinists are providing a post facto justification for the partition.
Posted by: Pacifist | May 18th, 2007 at 5:42 pm | Report this commentOh well, low serotonin levels, thats easily solved. Instead of bombing us shitless, you should perhaps send us lorry loads of Prozac instead.
As for entrenched feelings of moral and spiritual superiority and unending martial conquest, I would say that is a better description of America than Pakistan. Doom, gloom and pervasive pessimism are more the prevailing moods in Pakistan at the minute. We’re not in control our own country let alone in a position to conquer anybody else’s.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 19th, 2007 at 11:43 am | Report this commentAnd as for your point of national growth being driven by debt forgiveness, you are just plain wrong here. Out of $38 billion external debt only the US government has promised to write off $1 billion (and even thats stalled in the US congress and may never happen).
A portion (about $12 billion) was re-scheduled but this can hardly be called forgiveness. Instead of paying grossly above market rates of interest we now only pay moderately above them. And even this ‘generous assistance’ is believed to have been contigent on the Pakistan’s state owned airline PIA buying 8 Boeing 777 planes for $1.6bn against the vociferous objections of the then PIA management.
You see for all your talk of monumental errors being made in supporting Pakistan what you perhaps don’t realise is that your government feels exactly the same way about Pakistan as you do. They have given Pakistan little or no meaningful assistance. The only support you have given is that you haven’t ‘bombed our country into the stone age’ as Richard Armitage promised to do some years backs. And I believe even that is just a matter of time.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 19th, 2007 at 11:51 am | Report this comment“We’re not in a position to control our country, let alone conquer anyone else’s”
Oh that’s wonderful news, dear JTP, now go and advise your friendly neighborhood mullah to announce precisely that on his next friday afternoon azaan.
And while you’re at it, also tell the exalted mullah to advise your gov’t to leave afghanistan the hell alone! I mean, if you’re truly pursuing peace with India, then why do you need strategic depth in Afghanistan?? Or do I get a whiff of ‘Hudaibiya’ (lie, deceive, back-stab? — not good national characteristics in today’s interconnected world!)
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 19th, 2007 at 3:00 pm | Report this comment“…a portion ($12Bln) was rescheduled, this can hardly be called forgiveness”
Dear JTP, you’re absolutely correct the NPV savings to your fiscal authorities from this ‘forbearance’ by your creditors is not exactly equivalent to the kind of ‘debt-forgiveness’ that say goes to Chad or Honduras that avail of PRGF finances form the IMF… So congrats, your honor and dignity is intact! But instead of expressing gratitude to your creditors… what do you do? you bad mouth them for the boeing planes! Its all about the image of appearing proud and self reliant … isn’t it??? Never mind the reality that living with $12bln of current liabs (had there been no rescheduling) would have bankrupted Pakistan externally or fiscally.
Gesundheit
Posted by: gesundheit | May 19th, 2007 at 3:20 pm | Report this commentGive you truckloads of prozac??? are you kidding, you guys will instantly neutralize its effect with all the hashish, opium, and heroin that you consume!
The only support we’ve given is to NOT bomb your country back to the stone age as Armitage said?? …mmmmmm… why do you see that as support? its more of an incentive actually. Its like the geo-political equivalent of a ‘put’ option, the cost of the option’s contract is the extra bilat aid and debt rescheduling your country is getting.
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 19th, 2007 at 3:34 pm | Report this commentJavaid the Paki, Pakistan has nuclear bombs but can’t help its people to get educated and get a job. You fellow muslim each other and your religious leaders don’t do anything. Why you are not angry at your government who builds nukes instead of providing jobs, religious leaders who inspire to kill people of other religions and not encourage hard work?? WHY??
Posted by: Chen | May 19th, 2007 at 8:26 pm | Report this commentOh, don’t take offence, old man. I wasn’t bad mouthing your country, I was mere stating a fact. The Paris club debt rescheduling of 2002 was little different in its terms to a similar deal given Pakistan in the 1970s or for that matter given to other indebted countries. The fact is America did not dangle a big carrot in front of Musharraf, they threatened him with a big stick. I am sure America can be generous to its friends. But thats my point. Pakistan has no goodwill in America, and America and Pakistan’s so called alliance has never been based of friendship or gratitude but on hard interest.
As for the treaty of Hudaibiya, you the western critics of Islam and the Taliban, both ascribe bad and hateful things to our Prophet, but I only ascribe good decent things to him. The lesson I draw from the treaty of Hudaibiya is that we should make peace with our enemies and concentrate on peaceful development. You can ridicule that as much as you like, but I do believe it.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 19th, 2007 at 8:46 pm | Report this commentTo Chen:
How do you know I’m not angry with religious leaders who promulgate hatred.
And as for our government, it builds nukes because India has them and for no other reason. It is a matter of national self-interest and self-defence. I think most of Pakistan would be happy to get rid of them, if India did likewise.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 19th, 2007 at 8:55 pm | Report this commentDear javaid the Paki, your answers clarified certain things. Thank you. If there are many people in Pakistan who are angry with religious leaders who inspire hatred, why there are a lot of marches which show hatred to America, but there are no such movements against religious extremists?? I saw many pakistani people saying ‘America is not good, we should kick them out of here’, but I never heard pakistani saying ‘Our religious leaders are wrong to inspire hatred. We must fight against it’. Why is that??
Posted by: Chen | May 20th, 2007 at 12:39 pm | Report this commentDear Chen,
I never claimed there were many of us, but we do exist. It is true to a degree that Pakistan is increasingly falling under the sway of dangerous and absurd ideas propagated by ignoramuses like the Taliban.
But to understand the roots of this anti-American rage and the genesis of the Taliban is a very complex question for which there is no quick answer.
The roots of Pakistani antipathy towards America, lie in the 1980s war against the Soviet backed Afghan government (which was actually a farily progressive government, the kind the Americans could only dream of installing today).
American and Saudi money was used by the then fundamentalist Sunni/Deobandi Pakistani dictator General Zia ul Haq to set up what is now the now infamous Taliban madrassa system. Pakistan and Afghanistan were flooded with guns and the narcotics trade was openly allowed to flourish, even encouraged. This left Pakistan (and war ravaged Afghanistan) with serious problems. After the war, however, the Americans simply turned round and slapped economic sanctions against Pakistan for its nuclear programme, which had a genuinely detrimental effect on Pakistan’s economy.
This in part explains antipathy and mistrust of American motives in Pakistan. To understand the genesis of the Taliban, again you have to go back to 1980s anti-Soviet Afghan war. The Soviet backed Afghan government, as I said, was actually progressive. The Americans found it expedient (perhaps they even thought it was necessary) to incite and radicalise the most regressive and ignorant elements in Afghan and Pakistani Pashtun society. They had a willing co-operative in General Zia who was of this mindset himself, and this army of ignoramuses in the 1990s metamorphosed into the Taliban and today they are poisoning the entire national discourse in Pakistan.
Support for the Taliban today in Pakistan is not universal and is mostly concentrated in the Pashtun minority, since in the 1990s Afghan civil war, the Taliban mobilised and stood for Pashtun nationalism in Afghanistan. They do have some support in the other ethnic groups of Pakistan, but their greatest power has been in their ability to sway the entire national debate.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 20th, 2007 at 7:12 pm | Report this commentThe counterpart of Pakistani mistrust of America is of course, American mistrust of Pakistan.
As I said, the debt rescheduling of 2002 was not actually that generous, maybe it never could have been. I daresay Bush, Powell and Armitage did want to be generous towards Pakistan and consequently get real results. But the reality is that they were hamstrung by Congress and could only promise what they were sure Congress would agree to. And there is widespread hostility towards Pakistan in both Congress and the wider American nation. It existed before 9/11 and only multiplied 10 times after it. It is in part a function of America’s strategic need to please India and in part disdain for some of Pakistan’s often alien tribal customs (although I have to qualify that by saying, large sections of Pakistan do not follow such primitive and superstitious tribalism).
All in all, the ‘Armitage Option’, ie. American carpet bombing of Pakistan may become inevitable. Mutual mistrust and hostility is only growing, and both countries are increasingly falling under the sway of dangerous and absurd ideas.
Plus, America can always outsource the whole job to the Indians.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 20th, 2007 at 7:32 pm | Report this commentAlso to Chen,
Reading your post again, I have noticed your question, why is there no movement condemning ignorant religious leaders.
There are such movements in Pakistan and there have been numerous protest marches against Taliban style religious fanaticism, although admittedly they are usually in protest at the Taliban’s domestic agenda.
In the past few months there have been numerous protest marches against the Lal Masjid, which is a Pashtun dominated, pro-Taliban mosque in Islamabad, which has been kidnapping people, threatening music and video shops and even threatened a female Federal Minister (because she hugged a man). There were protest marches in Pakistan after both 9/11 and the July 7 London bombings.
The western media does not report such things, since it obviously does not interest them or does not fit in with any story or narrative of rising hostiliy to the West (which is a story that does interest them and fits in with their wider view of Pakistan)
You see, this is the part of the problem. America in particular only sees one side (the worst side) of Pakistan and when even reasonable people in America come to believe Pakistan is completely rotten, that is when anything becomes possible.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 20th, 2007 at 10:04 pm | Report this commentDear Pacifist,
As a Muslim from India - I would rather be a Muslim living in India than one in Pakistan. At least I can practice my religion freely in India rather than being told how to practice it. As to Hindu chauvinists - just because they are strident and loud not to speak of being delusional - does not mean that the Brits had nothing to do with creating Pakistan. However, that said while plenty of Hindus may have and still look down on Muslims - this did not create Pakistan either- nor did Brit machinations - the “let’s blame others for our problems” attitude of some Muslims did. Their lack of numbers helped thme find justification then. Note this is exactly what right wing Hindus do now. Regarless of what Pakistani muslims and right wing Hindus say - Hindus and Muslims are not separate nations. A state created by a flawed logic and bankrupt ideology will naturally turn to extremism to survive - what’s surprising about that?
Posted by: Saira Ali | May 21st, 2007 at 4:31 am | Report this commentDear Saira Ali:
Are you sure you’re a Muslim from India? I’m a Hindu and my wife is Muslim and we love each other… and we live overseas and I admit I’ve become “cut off” from the ground in India.
But I get the sneaky feeling during visits to India, the distrust the two communities have for each other is widening… and I also feel it’s Hindu fundamentalists who’re getting more aggressive… I’ve had to protect my wife from being provoked on several occassions… and even had to threaten one of them with physical violence, to stop his verbal bullying. They behave like this even though they’re aware my wife is very respectful to the Hindu faith.
The India of today is not the same secular India I knew during my school days.
Posted by: Raj Chotrani | May 21st, 2007 at 7:15 am | Report this commentI believe that Pakistan is a force for good in the World. Pakistani people have spiritual depth which is a value which we can give to the World. For example family values, strong friendships, respect of elders, taking care of parents…these are very important values. Meanwhile the West has progressed in Science & Knowledge, which we can learn from, and we can pass on Spiritual Knowledge to the West. India meanwhile is intrinsically part of our history, culture, and values. India and Pakistan are the same people, and really are brothers. I have deep respect and affection for Indians. Hopefully our relations will be normalized soon. With the West, we have to remove misunderstandings, and positively contribute to each other our respective strengths. Ultimately its One-World with One-Humanity.
Posted by: Principled Pakistani | May 21st, 2007 at 8:36 am | Report this commentDear Pricnipled Pakistani,
The values you are talking about that Pakistanis have, they are also shared by other nations too, and in America they are one of the strongest. AMerica is a very conservative society. It is a
big country and there are many kinds of people. But if you think pakistanis are stronger in family values and friendship you might be mistaken.
Meanwhile in Pakistan, with all these values you are talking about, the bottom line is religious extremism is flourishing. I don’t think it is something you should teacht the West.
When 40 people died during protests - what kind of friendship it is?? In Afganistan talibans destroy schools and hospitals and they get help from some of pakistani people, what kind of high moral is that??
Pakistan has strong cultural values, but just like many other nations do.
Posted by: Chen | May 21st, 2007 at 11:55 am | Report this commentDear Saira Bhen,
I am from the Muhajir minority in Pakistan and most of my mother’s family still lives in India. I have a number of cousins in India and one or two of them like you are completely hostile to Pakistan. I have to say I just laugh at some of their tirades against Pakistan, when you consider facts like that during the Ahmedabad riots/pogroms of 2002, the hindu mobs constantly shouted at their victims that they were dirty Pakis.
My mother lived in India up until the 1960s and like Raj Chotrani, she affectionately remembers it as a genuinely, deeply secular country, in much the same way, Pakistan was a progressive country at that time.
Indian TV, newspapers and general discourse of my relatives generally suggests to me that the Hindu fundamentalists are not some fringe minority who are simply going to go away.
I am sorry if you find this message unpleasant, but ultimately realities have to be faced.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 21st, 2007 at 1:47 pm | Report this commentSimarly, to Principled Pakistani,
I have worked and lived in the UK over some time, and I found most English people very friendly on a personal level. But I never really found them to be particularly bothered with such things as spiritual knowledge and certainly not any that comes from us.
We are not the monsters or the overwhelming threat that we are sometimes portrayed as in their media, but the perception the westerners have of us is very entrenched, I found. In part, terrorism like the July 7 London bombing and indirectly September 11 were linked to Pakistan. In turn their media reports this and pretty much nothing else about Pakistan. Add to this the increasing popularity of anti-Muslim writers in the West and the general belief which is increasing in the West, that Islam is fundamentally evil and rotten and all in all, it doesn’t add up to a pretty picture and it will be difficult if not impossible to reverse.
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 21st, 2007 at 2:05 pm | Report this comment“we are not the monsters…”, “…media reports this and pretty much nothing else in Pak”, “…increasing popularity of anti-Muslim writers int he West”
Is it just me, or does JTP’s rant seem like a robust defense of Pak by laying the blame nice and thick on ..you guessed it… everyone else but Pak.
By any coventionally accepted definition (universal suffrage, minority/women’s rights, rule-of-law, etc) or unfolding of daily socio-political events, Pak IS a country that remains fundamentally intolerant. Pointing out and magnifying the prejudices of western writers hardly absolves Pakistan and Pakistanis of the simple fact that by and large -at a societal level- they are unwilling to tolerate and live with differences — be they Shia-Sunni, Muslim-Hindu, Punjabi-Sindhi/Baluchi, Mohajir-Pashto and so on. Regardless of whichever culture or sub-group they come in contact with … there inevitably is conflict. Instead of resolving or at least dealing with these profound questions in and of itself, apologists like JTP engage in the moral relativism of immediately comparing themselves to shortcomings in the US or India or elsewhere. The argument goes something like Pakistan has these problems… but it is the US does so and so, or look at India it is equally/more bad. I mean why on earth is there Paki involvement in Bosnia, Philippines, Chinese Xinjiang, Somalia??? And how long does the hapless Pakistani woman need to come up with 4 male witnesses for the gang-rapes she encounters (which by the way remains a deeply rooted tradition of enforcing social control). Given the magnitude of these problems, Pakistanis go about ‘explaining’ why these problems are not THAT bad, or pointing out that OTHER countries have them too! No-one, and I mean no-one has actually tried any serious social reform. Edhi and all there but more marginal and symbolic rather than effective. Pakistan’s leaders who CAN or at least ought to do something –about nationwhide chronic depression, constant prickliness, a chip on the shoulder, the urge to do jihad everywhere all the time, the need to protect ‘izzat’ at any cost– merely go about protecting their thrones, writing shambolic autobiographies, and indeed even channeling the countries destructive forces into causes for personal gain.
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 21st, 2007 at 3:29 pm | Report this commentPakistan has 160 million people. The ‘bad guys’ are very few, maybe 0.1% of the pop (about 160K)…. the bad guys get more visibility in the media, which is why they appear to be more. Meanwhile, over 159 million of Pakistani’s are ‘good guys’, warm, affectionate, loving, and kind people. In the future, Pakistan will be a strong force in the World for good and positive deeds. Meanwhile its important to realize that irrespective of race, religion, nationality, ethnicity, what is more imporatnt is strong spriritual values like love, charity, justice, kindness, and so on, amongst all people of the World. Nation-states are artificial creation of mankind, and hold no value in the eyes of the Creator. The Creator values fundamental principles of Goodness. We have to help each other in achieving a higher evolved spiritual state, with all peoples contributing their learnings. There is no advantage in saying “X country is all bad, and Y country is superior for these reasons”…..all people are creation of God, and all can help each other in their spiritual and worldly growth. In this regard I love Pakistan, because I am a Pakistani, and I know the Goodness of my people. I love India because we are one-people with one-history with India, I love Saudi Arabia because our Holy Sites are there, and our Holy Prophet (PBUH) came from that land, I love the Muslim World because we share the same religion, I love China because they our Pakistan’s friend, I love Europe and America because the contribution they have made to Human Civilization in Knowledge, Science, Technology….which has helped growth of the World, I love Africa because of their human-ness, simplicity, and struggle to overcome adversity, I love the Jews because they were the precursors of Islam, all the Jewish prophets from Abraham, Moses, Solomon, David are revered by Islam as Holy Prophets…..also because of the contribution of Jews to knowledge, learning. I love Hindus because they are 99.9% the same as Pakistanis, they also worship the Creator intensely, through a different approach (than Muslims), but that is fine, and is the prerogative of each human being. Hence again I say that we are One-Mankind, we are 99% similar, and 1% different. All the strife in the World is over the 1% difference. Instead we should celebrate the 99% commonality, and we should help grow our common spirituality and worldly progress.
Posted by: Principled Pakistani | May 21st, 2007 at 6:18 pm | Report this commentPP — And what if i said … there is no god called Allah or anyone else, and that no one is his/her prophet?
And what if the ‘bad guys’ are more than 0.1% of Pakistan’s population?? Besides, not even 0.1% of your compatriots share your -laudably- benign views about mankind and spirituality. If they did we wouldn’t have problems would we?
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 21st, 2007 at 6:40 pm | Report this commentDear Gesundheit, let me respond to your comments as follows:
Posted by: Principled Pakistani | May 21st, 2007 at 8:04 pm | Report this comment1. Most of Mankind accepts the premise that there is a Creator, that the Creator is a positive force, that Mankind’s conduct in this life will affect their ’state’ in the next dimension (i.e. good is rewarded with a positive future state, and vice versa)…the name given to the Creator does not matter.
2. The bad guys in Pakistan are no different to the bad guys anywhere else. In terms of sheer scale of negative behaviour, and its impact on the World, it would be difficult to beat Hitler, Stalin, and other tyrants who had huge negative impact on the World (none being a Pakistani). Lately we have Bush/Blair attacking a country on false pretences, killing 650,000 people, and essentially destroying an entire civilization which had survived 5000 years. Genghis Khan would have been proud of the Bush/Blair crime syndicate. You will note of-course that neither are Pakistani’s. Therefore my macro point is that ‘badness’ is not the prerogative of any particular nation/people. There are a huge number of people in Britain and America who are as appalled by the actions of Bush/Blair. Jimmy Carter recently said that Bush was the worst President in the history of the US. I believe, the fundamental Goodness of Americans and British will correct this rogue behaviour by their leaders. In this regard we can compare to the enlightened Chinese who have recently committed $20B to development in Africa. Pakistan played a Huge Role for the freedom of the World and the West, in taking on the Soviet Union and the Red Army in the 1980s, and defeating it. The fallout of that is the taliban issue. We need to deal with these matters sensitively and wisely, so that we help Pakistan transition to a evolved and developed nation, since the people of Pakistan are amongst the most loving, kind, and decent people in the World.
PP says (and I paraphrase)…Hitler/Genghis = Bush/Blair; Bush/Blair Pakistan(is), so Pakistanis not so bad after all.
This is typical of the twisted logic that precludes Pakistanis from dealing with the causes of Pakistan’s problems rather than merely dealing with its symptoms or spewing forth moral relativism to somehow justify that Pakistan is not -by and large- a troublemaking country.
The issue is not about Bush or Blair or their evils nor is it about whether they are as bad as Genghis/Hitler.
The issue is about Pakistan and its own behavior. Even there the comparisons instantly veer off toward the rest of world owing you guys a debt a of gratitude for defeating the commies in Afghanistan (incidentally, your other compatriot -JTP- called te Kabul regime of Najibullah an liberal/progressive regime).
The search for root causes will take you back to Adam and eve (if not the big bang). And that won;t solve Pakistan’s problems! The way for Pakistan to move ahead is to look ahead, without comparing/blaming others, without defining what it is not and without operating on the specifications of what it is against. Till such time as any Pakistani person can honestly and openly acknowledge that Pakistan, and ONLY Pakistan, has made mistakes that it will have to rectify –without instantly bringing in the west or india or ussr– Pakistan has no hope of absolution and national recovery.
The urge to drag in everyone else and their grandmother to explain your problems merely justifies it, but does nothing to RESOLVE it.
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 21st, 2007 at 11:31 pm | Report this commentI can readily admit that our country has made mistakes, big mistakes which only we can rectify or suffer the consequences (and for that matter probably already are suffering the consequences). Maybe trouble is coming out of our country.
But I repeat, we are not all the gang-raping, honour-killing, opium gorging monsters you seem to suggest we are. I also do not believe Americans are all monsters (I know for a fact most English people are very nice). But dangerous and erroneous ideas can take hold of a society.
You see, you can froth at the mouth as much as you like, and shout moral relativism as loud as you want, because you too are stuck in a kind of absurdity. You on the one hand say our Prophet was a deceitful, dishonest, back-stabber and on the other hand are trying to implant your ideals and win over Afghanistan, when you must surely know your hatred of our Prophet is something we will never share. You are trying to win over the hearts and minds (or at the very least political support) of muslims when your own heart and mind seems to be completely closed against us.
Having said all this, some of your analysis of surreal absurdity in Pakistan isn’t entirely wrong, if somewhat skewed by your strong hostility. In fact, I found your analogy of the put option quite interesting. Maybe America’s entire war on terror/Islamic radicalism/Islam or whatever it actually is, is just that, a gamble, a put option (that is an option to sell an asset at a higher price in the future, hoping the price in the meantime falls). America has taken this gamble and hopes the price, ie. hostility against it will one day fall. They, the Americans, use their overwhelming power in the market to push the price down, only it keeps on rising against them. What does anybody then do in this position. Do you pour in more capital, in a new attempt to push the price down, but even then after trying that the price never seems to fall enough, and even starts rising again and before you know it you are pouring more and more capital in, getting sucked further and further into this gamble, never knowing whether you can actually ever win or for that ever could have won in the first place.
I believe genuinely sensible Americans can see that is at least partially what is happening to their country
Posted by: Javaid The Paki | May 22nd, 2007 at 1:48 pm | Report this commentJTP–
“I can readily admit…”
Good, thats a start. The road ahead is long and tough. And stay off of relapsing into making excuses about how USSR did so and so and so, America did this and that, and how big bad India is waiting to gobble us up. This is kind of nonsense is not bought by anyone anymore (not even Gideon Rachman; you should see his latest article, of may 22, on the dispensability of Musharraf).
“But I repeat, we are not all…”
Noone is saying each and every Pakistani (man) is a gang-raping, pot-smoking, honor-killing, koran-roting, music-shunning, suicide-bombing maniac. But a substantial number are, and it has obviously attracted enough world attention such that these problems are regarded as unique or specific to Pakistan.
In the same manner, US is known for its lax gun laws and sporadic bursts of homicides in schools, etc; India used to be known for dowry deaths (still a problem, but not as dire); Russians and alcoholism; Japanese and suicides. Doesn’t mean that each and every American is a homicidal maniac, or each Indian is just itching to burn up their daughter-in-law, Or every Russian is engaging in a liver punishing vodka binge; or all Japanese are counting to d-day.
So the issue I have is when Pakistanis instantly jump up to say “…nah… this kinda stuff is not so bad, or so what if this stuff happens… it happens in India too.” The more you explain away things, the more YOU (presumably a Pakistani) will become complacent and deal with the symptoms of Pakistan’s malaises, rather than have the guts to really reform. Afterall excuse mongering can only avert momentary embarrassment… while the ugly reality remains unchanged, or worsens.
So, I think a nationwide excercise in “anger-management” would be a great start.
About the geo-political “put option” on Pakistan. America is not interested in ever-greening the put option. I.e. it won’t keep on extending capital to retain the option. If the option time horizon runs out (As Gideon is arguing it has) then the sunk cost is merely the aid/reschuduling assistance you got from us. To clarify, further … I didn’t mean for it (the “put”) to be a speculatively money-making analogy. It is a geo-political hedge. If Pakistan can pull itself together and once again become a normal nation, then we are happy for it, and have no qualms about the bilat assistance and rescheduling we would have provided it. However, if Pakistan keeps on wallowing in the mud of islamic radicalism, and destabilization of its neighbors — then eventually the “put” contract will expire (and assistance will end) which means other means will have to be considered.
Armitage’s visit, after 9/11, I prefer to believe, was to convince Musharraf to go for the “Put.”
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 22nd, 2007 at 7:51 pm | Report this commentI can’t help noticing that Gesundheit either has too much free time and/or is poisonously biased against Pakistan. There is so much hatred in the comments. Why? No harm in being critical, as surely there are many areas to criticise. But why this obsession? Get a life man (or woman).
Posted by: S Khan | May 23rd, 2007 at 10:21 am | Report this commentTo S Khan:
You forgot to mention that Gesundheit is also blithely propagandistic about the US role and intentions in the region and too keen on flaunting the US military might.
In other words he is a bought and paid for NeoCon! I guess, as there is a “flat earth society”, one cannot discount the continued long term adherence of some to the NeoCon creed despite all evidence of the wrongness of their ideas.
P
Posted by: Pacifist | May 23rd, 2007 at 1:10 pm | Report this comment“I can’t help noticing that Gesundheit either has too much free time…”
“…Gesundheit is also blithely propagandistic (sic) about the US role and intentions…”
Hello kids, you’re both wrong! I am writing purely on acct of my concern for the future wellbeing of Pakistan. If you can’t handle well-intentioned (even if stinging) criticism of Pakistan then don’t read this blog.
My basic premise is — no more excuses, or saying “… look, look … [with Pakistani eyes fluttering, bated breath, rapid heartbeat, fingers pointing] …it happens in britain too (teenagers knifed!) wow…[collective Pakistani sigh of relief]… pakistan is not alone in random acts of savagery…” or “… you must understand… pakistan was let down by the americans, or brutalized by the russians, or hammered by the indians… or… whatever…”
I repeat– continuing with this train of thought would represent a very unwelcome development for Pakistan!
And let me also add… try to spend your brain cells to focus on the intrinsic short-falls of Pakistan rather than 1) trying to make excuses or finding scapegoats, and 2) attacking people (like myself, for example) who are merely well-wishing messengers :-). Otherwise you are merely assuaging your “honor and dignity” (which is pretty fatuous anyways) and inflating your embarrasingly vacuous ego. Meanwhile, Pakistan (many Zindabads to it) is descending steadily into hell.
Don’t like the message? Hey… don’t shoot the messenger!
Posted by: Gesundheit | May 23rd, 2007 at 7:17 pm | Report this commentI don’t think gesundheit was biased or unfair. He represented ideas of many westerners who share similar thoughts about Pakistan. His criticism about Pakistan is justified. He just pointed out bad things about Pakistan.
Posted by: Chen | May 23rd, 2007 at 8:04 pm | Report this commentIf you find it biased, then some of you don’t have intellectual flexibility to understand things that are not taught or covered in the muslim World.
Pakistan has many good things but it also has some bad things, it helps taliban. What he was trying to tell is that pakistanis should fight it, not just explain ‘this is the reason this has happened’ and not do anything. Pakistanis should get used to critisism, there are a lot of criticism for everyone in the West because you can’t keep everyone happy. Many muslims get angry when they are criticised, but it is perfectly normal. Criticism is not made to hurt someone, but to point out some ideas that might help to solve the problem.
In America everyone gets ALOT of criticism compared to Pakistan, whilst America has MUCH GREATER achiemevements (internet, first flight to moon, new medicines, greatest innovator in technologies, fast planes etc). Instead of getting angry at criticism people should thank the person who is criticising and find something useful in it.
Gideon Rachman (and Gesundheit, probably one and same person), are not to be blamed. He is an apologist for colonialism. Over the past centuries there were many people who blamed the victims of colonial policies for their own suffering. The ‘natives’ were uncivilized, therefore we are taking over their country. Killing a few million of them is for their own good. Britain practiced this for 500 years in America, Africa, India, China, and elsewhere. America took over in the 20th century with a gusto in Vietnam, Cambodia, Central America, Phillipines, Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan. The apologists for colonialism in each age/century explain endlessly that ‘its good for the natives’….we are civilizing them…they are terrorists’. The apologists of-course are small minded individuals and nothing better can be expected of them. I am amazed that Mr Rachman (who clearly is a neocon himself) is bashing Pakistan, who has been a staunch US ally for 50 years. Taliban were as much a US creation in the fight against the Soviets. I believe that my country has much better thought leaders, and people like Jimmy Carter are to be applauded for calling a spade a spade. Senator Robert Byrd made the following speech in the Senate on March 17, 2007:
“We need to conclude this terrible, awful mistake that we have made in Iraq. I said in the beginning that we ought not go into Iraq. But we are there. Anti-Americanism is more robust now than in any period in our history because of Iraq. Do you hear that? The international community is skeptical — why should they not be? They are skeptical of U.S. intentions because of Iraq. Our Constitution has been trampled — hear that. Our Constitution has been trampled because of Iraq. Thousands of U.S. troops and Iraqi citizens have lost their lives because of Iraq. Thousands more are maimed physically or mentally because of Iraq. Billions of U.S. dollars have been wasted because of Iraq.
Posted by: Enlightened American | May 24th, 2007 at 1:22 am | Report this commentPresident Bush has lost all credibility. President Bush, our President, has lost all — all — credibility because of Iraq.
Terrorism is on the rise worldwide because of Iraq. May God grant this Congress — that is, us — may God grant this Congress the courage to come together and answer the cries of a majority of the people who sent us here. Find a way to end this horrible catastrophe, this unspeakable — unspeakable — ongoing calamity called Iraq. May God help us in the United States”.