May 24, 2008
Vice-presidents and secretaries of state
I am just coming to the end of a week in Washington. Now that it seems pretty certain that the presidential race will be McCain v Obama, political gossip is turning to the second-order questions - who will be the vice-presidential candidates? Who will get the big cabinet jobs?
Barack Obama will be even less inclined to want Hillary Clinton on his ticket, after her tasteful suggestion that he might be assassinated - like Bobby Kennedy. The thought of having Bill hanging around the Obama White House is also not obviously attractive. Still, Hillary seems to want the job - and could yet force Obama’s hand. The Obama camp are desperate to unify the party and get on with battling McCain. What if Hillary threatened to take the fight all the way to the Democratic convention at the end of August - and even to make a speech there, arguing that Obama is unelectable and appealing to delegates to switch over to her camp?
And her price, for avoiding this nasty scenario? Why, the second spot on the ticket.
In most normal administrations, the post of secretary of state is actually more important than the vice-president slot. (Dick Cheney is the obvious exception to this rule). And there is plenty of Washington speculation about the State Department job as well.
Many McCain people seem to think that his pick for the State Department will be Joe Lieberman, the former Democratic senator who was actually Al Gore’s running mate in 2000 - but who has now left the Democratic Party and who recently published an article excoriating his own party for being weak-kneed appeasers (I paraphrase). McCain and Lieberman are very close.
This taste for picking mavericks from the other side of the political divide extends to the Obama camp as well - which has prompted speculation that he might choose Chuck Hagel, a Republican senator from Nebraska, as his secretary of state. Hagel is a longstanding critic of the Iraq war.
But some Democrats might balk at giving such a plum job to a Republican. In which case Senator Joe Biden of Delaware is another front-runner for an Obama administration.
There has been some speculation about nominating Hillary Clinton for the Supreme Court, instead of putting her on the ticket with Obama, where she would be almost guaranteed to be as much of a divisive force as she has been during the primary season. Of course, there is the question of how she could be confirmed, unless the Democrats somehow manage to win 60 seats in the Senate. It is difficult to imagine a single Republican senator ever voting for Hillary for any position.
However, if Hillary were nominated and confirmed, who can doubt that she would make an outstanding, liberal Supreme Court justice, and that she would at the same time be safely out of the way of being able to sabotage an Obama administration?
I think that Virginia Senator Jim Webb would be a great choice for VP on an Obama ticket. He is a former Republican and Reagan cabinet member, having served as Secretary of the Navy. What Democrat could appeal better to the “Reagan Democrats”, as well as military voters?
Webb’s only possible drawback might be his penchant for writing racy novels, something that, no doubt, might cause Reverend Hagee and other Evangelical McCain supporters (or former supporters, now that McCain has disowned them) to experience something considerably short of the “rapture” that they evidently look forward to so eagerly. But the Christian right will never vote Democratic anyway.
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson would make an excellent Secretary of State, because of his extensive diplomatic experience, though one has to wonder whether Hillary herself would vote to confirm the man whom her surrogate, James Carville, once called “Judas” because of his support for Obama.
But are we getting slightly ahead of ourselves? It would be a mistake to underestimate the size of Hillary’s ego, despite her half-hearted apology over her outrageous “assassination” comment. (Can anyone imagine Obama being able to stay in the race for even 10 minutes longer if he had said something similar, or if even his disowned preacher, Reverend Wright, had said something like this as long as 20 years ago?).
Hillary is not likely to “go gentle into the good night” of even the Vice Presidency. If she is unable to wrest the nomination from Obama, we may very well see evidence of just how far her anger can lead her - perhaps out of the Democratic party entirely.
I am starting to read Vergil. I am sorry to say that I am doing so for the first time (and with great difficulty, because of my always inadequate and, after more than fifty years of disuse, rustier than ever Latin), but better late than never. I wonder if the great poet was anticipating the Obama-Hillary clash when he described Aeneas’ hardships at the hands of an angry, unforgiving Juno: “multum ille et terris jactatus et alto vi superum, saevae memorem Junonis ob iram”.
Roger Algase
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 5:02 am | Report this commentTo my great chagrin, I see that, while I think that I got my Vergil quote right, I did not do the same when I quoted Dylan Thomas. Of course, the correct reading of his immortal line is: “Do not go gentle into that good night”. My deep apologies.
Roger Algase
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 5:14 am | Report this commentalgasema,
It would help if you could translate that Virgil passage, for the sake of the non-Romans amongst us.
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 8:28 am | Report this comment“… thrown about on land and sea: an angry Juno never forgets”.
Posted by: sero | May 25th, 2008 at 9:11 am | Report this commentThankyou sero. Interesting that the English comes out more compact.
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 10:13 am | Report this commentMit Verlaub - excuse me, but Sero’s translation is incomplete: let’s take the phrase “et alto vi superum, saevae memorem Junonis ob iram”.
My translation would be “by force of the gods because of Juno’s never-forgetting anger”.
Do not forget that Juno was the wife of Jupiter, the chief of the Roman gods. And even now, the gods are invoked in Greece, at times. When a Greek child is choking (on a bit of food, for example) a Greek father will say “Look up at the gods” to make the child look upwards and clear its windpipe.
Posted by: J.J. | May 25th, 2008 at 1:14 pm | Report this commentThank you J.J. I’m beginning to see this is a very nice passage indeed. (Interesting to note the words English has borrowed from Latin: terrestrial, altitude, super, memory, ire.)
So if Hillary is Juno, I gather Bill is Zeus-Jupiter?
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 2:13 pm | Report this commentBased on my limited knowledge, I think that it would be hard to do better than in the new translation by Robert Eagles (2008), which seems to me to be faithful to the syntax of the original, as well as clear and elegant in its English: “yet many blows he took on land and sea from the gods above - thanks to cruel Juno’s relentless rage”.
I also mentioned that Obama might be protected from receiving “many blows” from Hillary if she were on the Supreme Court. Perhaps my statement needs to be rethought from two distinct points of view. From the legal perspective, a Justice Clinton could always get even with a President Obama by joining in with the reactionary “Scalito” led faction (including, of course, Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Scalia, Alito and, most reactionary of all, Thomas - Oh, if only Dylan were alive, had a law degree and US citizenship and were on the Court instead of Clarence! Then American democracy might be in less danger of going “gentle into that good night”).
If Hillary were angry enough to join in with the “Scalito” group, this would provide the five votes needed to overturn almost any Obama inspired legislation, even without the “swing” vote of Justice Anthony Kennedy. This would take us back to the days when a Republican dominated Supreme Court tried to invalidate most of Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal legislation. However, it is unlikely that even Hillary would be angry enough to undermine her own principles just to spite Obama. What is she going to do, vote to overturn the abortion decision, Roe v. Wade?
But from a Vergilian perspective, the Supreme Court might be the last place where Obama might wish to see Hillary installed. After all, as the above passage implies, Aeneas would have had a considerably smoother journey from Troy to Italy if it had not been for Juno’s influence over the “superi” (genitive - “superum”), namely the heavenly gods. Supreme , of course, is virtually the same word as “superi”, and the Justices of our nation’s highest court have rarely been unaware of their godlike powers.
It might be better to make Hillary Vice -President or Secretary of State after all.
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 2:38 pm | Report this commentRCS. The wife of Zeus was Hera. Alles klar?
Posted by: J.J. | May 25th, 2008 at 2:39 pm | Report this commentDanke J.J., das ist viel interessant.
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 3:28 pm | Report this commentRCS, you raise an interesting question about whether Hillary/Juno implies Bill/Jupiter. Obviously, Bill is not the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, or even one of its members. But there is nothing to prevent him from being appointed as well, now that he is, presumably, no longer barred from practicing law.
If I remember correctly, Bill’s law license was only suspended for five years after his impeachment in the Lewinsky affair. But perhaps it would be better not to mention Bill at all, because this brings to mind another instance where Juno lost out, namely to another beauty, Venus. Of course, Jupiter was not the culprit in that Venus/Juno competition, which involved Paris instead. This is certainly getting confusing.
But, as I recall, Jupiter was not exactly a model of fidelity either, nicht wahr?
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 3:31 pm | Report this commentalgasema,
Eagles’ translation might be clear English, but it dissipates all the poetic force of the original. Secondly, I did not spot the word ‘cruel’ in the original: so there is no need to be that harsh on Hillary. Finally, I would like to add to my list: ‘ille’ –> illyrian.
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 3:58 pm | Report this commentGR”Many McCain people seem to think that his pick for the State Department will be Joe Lieberman”
Well IF he won and did that it would be a big big mistake and tragic for the country…he is very limted and I fault him for MCCains lunge into neo-conville. McCain once had a close relationship with Hagel. That is the relationship he should consider recharging for his campaign…and Hagel would be a wonderful Sec. of State.
McCain is simply not going to do what he needs to do to win this. Look at who he has surrounded himself with…Good grief it was probably Lieberman who brought him Hagee!…Ol’ Joe probably said you get 2 for the price of one! the Fundalmentalist Christians and the hardliner supporters of Israel (mainly olderJewish voters and the Orthodox Jewish community) Well we know how Hagee worked out! Now let’s see if Lieberman, and Congressmenbers Elliot Engel,Mike Pence cut their political ties to him….
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 25th, 2008 at 6:00 pm | Report this commentGR”And there is plenty of Washington speculation about the State Department job as well.”
Well this is stupid too. Mr. Rachman who in the world are you talking to in DC! Hillary would be totally AT ODDS with his FP team. This is the woman who spoke of oblitering Iran…belittled and abused Samantha Power …it’s ridiculous…
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 25th, 2008 at 6:08 pm | Report this commentGR”which has prompted speculation that he might choose Chuck Hagel, a Republican senator from Nebraska, as hs secretary of state. Hagel is a longstanding critic of the Iraq war.”
I would love to see Hagel as Sec of State…or even Obama’s VP! but that is not politically possible…but as a registered “Decline To State” non party independent voter…I would love to see a Obama- Hagel ticket or aq Obama -Webb ticket
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 25th, 2008 at 6:13 pm | Report this commentRCS, “saevae memorem Junis ob iram” - “on account of cruel Juno’s unforgetting anger”. “Saevae” is the genitive of “saeva”,”cruel” or “fierce”, and modifies “Junonis”, the genitive of “Juno”, who certainly comes across as one cruel (or fierce) goddess.
I agree with you that Eagles’ translation cannot begin to capture the poetic force of the original. Is there any English translation that can hope to do this, without butchering the text? Not only is the Latin rhythm totally different from all but the most stilted English, but the inflected nature of Latin allows the poet a freedom of word order, and, accordingly emphasis, that is impossible to duplicate in English. At least that is my impression as a non-Latinist. I will leave it up the scholars to correct me.
Back to the presidential tickets and cabinets, once we really know who will be nominated. If Hillary does not resemble Juno, Lady MacBeth might be a better comparison (in terms of ambition only - I do not mean to insinuate that Hillary has ever murdered anyone, or would ever dream of doing so). Moreover, I am ready to take her explanation of the “assassination” gaffe at face value, just as Obama graciously did.
However, there are those who might say that “Freud will be Freud”.
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 6:51 pm | Report this commentSorry: “Lady Macbeth”.
Posted by: algasema | May 25th, 2008 at 6:54 pm | Report this commentalgasema,
Thank you for your very erudite exegesis. I was hoping to be lenient with Hillary, but now that you’ve analysed it there is no forgiving: saevae memorem Junonis ob iram!
Posted by: RCS | May 25th, 2008 at 7:52 pm | Report this commentRoger Algase:”I am starting to read Vergil. I am sorry to say that I am doing so for the first time (and with great difficulty, because of my always inadequate and, after more than fifty years of disuse, rustier than ever Latin), but better late than never. I wonder if the great poet was anticipating the Obama-Hillary clash when he described Aeneas’ hardships at the hands of an angry, unforgiving Juno: “multum ille et terris jactatus et alto vi superum, saevae memorem Junonis ob iram”.
Mr. Algase;
You are pure inspiration. It’s a gray and even somewhat rainy day in Northern California, a good day to read so I just read an english translation of Vergil’s “Aeneid”. (My Latin amounts to meeting a 3 year reguirement in my junior high school years and all I remember is how to conjugate puella, puellae!) So if Bill is the promiscuous Jupiter and Hillary the wrathful Juno …oh please tell me who will be our “Neptune” who gets mad at Juno for causing the storm and brings about calm?
I am glad I read it….so thank you!… Vergil was a favorite of St. Augustine, and now I understand why…
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 26th, 2008 at 12:48 am | Report this comment.
Obama has attactive choices for secretary of state , Biden and Richardson are first rate .
Posted by: jeannick | May 26th, 2008 at 2:11 am | Report this commentHe would be stark raving mad to trust Hillary as V.P.
His very life would be in jeopardy from the night of the elections … a question then ,
can a vice president elect be sworn , probably not , does he (she) get automaticaly upgraded ,if yes by whom ?
Thank you for your comment, Lisa-Helene Lawson. Reading Vergil in English, or trying to struggle with the Latin, is a welcome break from watching all the mindless commentary on television. I am happy if I made a useful suggestion.
We certainly are in need of a Neptune, and I have my doubts whether Howard Dean will fill the bill. Keith Olbermann, perhaps? The only thing that worries me about Vergil’s relevance for today is that he was writing, as I understand it, to glorify a Rome that was making the transition from a republic to an imperial dictatorship, based of course, on a founding myth that had no historical basis whatsoever.
If Vergil were alive today, would he be putting his talents in the service of the powers that be as, say, a Fox News commentator? Would he be writing about the unforgiving anger of Saddam’s equally mythical WMD, and would his hero be, not Aeneas, but Petraeus? Would Vergil be trying to find favor with the Bush/Cheney/McCain triumvirate, as he evidently was successful in doing with the emperor Augustus, if I have my history right? I certainly hope not.
Going back a little further in Roman history, is Iran the new “Delenda est Carthago”, the Carthage that must be destroyed? I suspect that we may have an answer to this before Bush/Cheney are out of office, and that it may not necessarily be one that St. Augustine, ot any other believer in peace on earth, past or present, would be happy with.
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 4:11 am | Report this comment“or any other believer”
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 4:14 am | Report this commentHoward Dean? …Neptune?…nonononononono!…no stature …Neptune must have stature…Al Gore could be Neptune!…Al Gore is Neptune…Al Gore’s endorsement could calm the waters….and dock Hillary’s boat!
Jimmy Carter just called for her to end it in June …I like Jimmy Carter but he is no Neptune either…
Up until today my when either Vergil or The Aeneid was referenced I would think of the novel “Lavinia” by science fiction/fantasy writer Ursula Le Guin …Lavinia is the wife of Aeneas…and in my reading today I was surprised that she is of so little consequence…
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 26th, 2008 at 5:46 am | Report this commentin this very creative and original novel, Virgil travels back in time to talk to her about love, lust, war, and peace…Aeneas is heroic, a very good man but dies in the novel…leaving Lavinia to raise their very wise and graceful son…(perhaps our OBAMA!!!) of course his Trojan half brother makes all kinds of difficulties for him!…but Lavinia’s and Aeneas’s son becomes the king!
Mr. Algase,
This is interesting as I just read Lavinia about 2 months ago…and I will be meeting a group of girlfriends shortly as it was our book group read for June…I shall incorporate your Juno/Hillary take into our discussion ! But I just looked at the novel again and was so taken by passages I had highlighed: LeGuin’s Lavinia asserts “I am not the feminine voice you may have expected. Resentment is not what drives me to write my story.”….then when discussing her life she states: “”Like Spartan Helen, I caused a war, She caused hers by letting men who wanted her take her. I caused mine because I wouldn’t be given, wouldn’t be taken, but chose my man and my fate.” It is the “Lavinias” that have not and will not be voting for Hillary!
I don’t think Hillary will be Obama’s pick for Supreme Court. However, perhaps Cass Sunstein might be….and that would be a wonderful pick!
Hillary can go run for Guv of New York …if she is tired of the Senate and really wants to run (administrate) something… and then after all these years of being forced into keeping separate homes, hers in DC ,his in NY … she can be back living in the same house with her Jupiter… or is it Zeus, anyway back at home with Bill!
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 26th, 2008 at 6:47 am | Report this commentSalve…..
Seems to me the USA is well on the way to becoming a totalitarian state. What has happened to freedom of speech. No wonder some on this forum are finding some pleasure in dabbling in Latin. How about some Ancient Greek? Eis avrio ta spoudeia, folks!
….atque vale
Posted by: J.J. | May 26th, 2008 at 7:12 am | Report this commentJJ!
Totalitaran state?!!! OH Please!!!!…we are free…even free to screw up like we did the last 2 presidential elections…we are about to correct that.
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 26th, 2008 at 7:35 am | Report this commentI must go to sleep because I am getting up early to ride.
I would say good night in Ancient Greek or Classical Latin but I dont know how to…nor do I have no idea what you said in Greek…but somebody here will and when I wake up, I am sure all shall be explained …Good Night!
J.J. and Lisa-Helene, I am embarassed to admit that even though I somehow once won a prize in ancient Greek (at the same prep school that, several years after my time there, managed to allow George W. Bush to graduate), I cannot remember a single word of Greek, except, perhaps for the first three words of the Iliad: “Meynin aiede Thea” (”Sing, Goddess, the wrath…”). Of course, in this passage, it isn’t the goddess who is wrathful, but Achilles.
Perhaps if we put together the Greek masculine anger of Achilles together with Juno’s Latin feminine anger we will have Billary. Except that, if I remember correctly, Achilles showed his anger by refusing to be involved in the battle at all, an attitude that would have served the Clintons (and the country) well during the primaries, but would certainly not be helpful in the general election campaign (when it is more likely to manifest itself).
Then we have another great Indo-European epic, the Mahabharata (totally ignored, along with the fact that there even was such a thing as Sanskrit, in the Eurocentric education that I received back in the 1950’s). In the Mahabharata, the hero (Arjuna?) refuses to fight because he does not believe in bloodshed, but is eventually persuaded by the god Krishna (?) to join the fray anyway - was Arjuna some sort of an ancient Al Gore, even if Krishna, evidently, was not a Neptune?
All of this is just a long-winded way of saying that I cannot translate J.J.’s Greek quote - perhaps he wll be kind enough to do that for us himself. I also have to admit that I had never heard of the novel Lavinia. I will try to get hold of a copy, since it seems to have quite a few challenging themes.
I also agree that it would be wrong for Hillary to take women for granted, if she has any such idea. However, I was surprised recently when a cousin of mine, who has been active all her life in liberal politics, told me that she supports Hillary, without any conviction or enthusiasm, purely for “demographic” reasons. I also have a sister who is an avid Hillary supporter, a daughter who, no doubt, voted for Hillary in Pennsylvania because she once met her on a train several years ago, and another daughter who, like Lisa-Helene, lives in Northern California and who thinks for herself. She suppports Obama (as far as I know).
I cannot imagine anyone saying that he or she supports a candidate for “demographic” reasons. If that were true, I would have to vote for McCain. One final thought, with all due respect to Lisa-Helene’s contrary view. J.J. is right about the “totalitarian state”. We are not there yet, but we are on the way.
In the America of Guantanamo, unprecedented governmental secrecy, politically motivated prosecutions such as the one against the Democratic governor of Alabama, vote suppression of minorities through restrictive ID laws and official intimidation of voter registration groups, wholesale roundups of immigrants, some of whom die in jail through deliberate medical neglect or mistreatment, gerrymandering of election districts in search of the “permanent Republican majority” and, above all, a lobbyist controlled Congress and biased media dominated by America’s Pravda or Volkischer Beobachter, a/k/a Fox News, to argue that we are not turning into a totalitarian state sounds like Greek to me.
Roger Algase
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 12:45 pm | Report this commentThe Mahabharata is definitely more interesting than this Greco-Roman claptrap.
Posted by: RCS | May 26th, 2008 at 1:28 pm | Report this commentalgasema,
One advantage of being greek!:
Es avrion ta spoudaia= let us leave important issues for to-morrow.
Posted by: Cassandra | May 26th, 2008 at 1:30 pm | Report this commentRCS,
Compressed implications of what you imply: no greco-roman “clapltrap” means
no enlightnment, no napoleonic laws, no science. In other words the christian middle ages and the tribal, angry god of the jews.
Very oppressive and definetely no fun.
Posted by: Cassandra | May 26th, 2008 at 1:39 pm | Report this commentCassandra,
I was referring to ancient Greco-Roman religion. Fortunately, for once one does not have to be politically correct, since (AFIK) there are no modern adherents (or maybe they are all underground).
Anyway, you are wrong to be proud of this heritage since it is not yours: modern Greece is a local ofshoot of Byzantine civilisation, there is no connexion with ancient Greece. (The myths of modern nationalism are an even greater claptrap.)
Posted by: RCS | May 26th, 2008 at 2:13 pm | Report this commentRoger Algase need not apologise for having won a prize for Greek. Does Hillard & Botting mean anything to you?
Re: Nascent totalitarialism in the USA. I base my assertion on a.o. the fact that eliminating one’s political opponents by assassinating them is not what one would expect from a well-behaved democracy. Then there is also a bothering statistic: every 2,3 American is working in the security, surveillance, anti-crime, defence etc. sectors. I therefore deduce that in the USA the state is really pervasive.
J.(Juno) J.
Posted by: J.J. | May 26th, 2008 at 2:54 pm | Report this commentJ.J., re your comment about the number of Americans working in security, defence, surveillance, etc., I am amazed at how a major cable television channel like MSNBC (the same one that, to be fair, is bringing a good deal of aid and comfort to us Obama supporters by airing Keith Olbermann and Chris Matthews every night) can otherwise run non-stop, around the clock programming about the insides of various US prisons.
Certainly, it is good to do some exposes about our prison system - but almost 24/7? What kind of people are so crime obsessed that they have nothing better to do than to watch this sort of thing day and night? If we were really a civilized nation, our mainstream TV channels (not just the ethnic South Asian ones) would be running non-stop programming on the Mahabharata.
There would also be nothing wrong with doing the same for the Iliad, the Odyssey, the Aenead, and the Gilgamesh and Enuma Elish epics as well, especially since the US is now doing everything in its power to destroy the birthplace of these latter two monuments to world civilization.
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 3:20 pm | Report this commentSu madre es muy muy gorda! Enough with the gibberish!
Posted by: Sade | May 26th, 2008 at 3:22 pm | Report this commentJ.J. I have to admit that I have never heard of Hillard and Botting. My Greek text was Chase and Phillips. In fact, I was fortunate enough to have had the late Dr. Chase himself as my Greek teacher at Andover. How disappointed he would have been if he had known that his “prize winner” had forgotten the language entirely.
However, as I have implied in some earlier comments, not only America, but Europe, is suffering because there has been (or once was) too much emphasis on the European classics and little or none on Asia. Now, we in the west are rushing to catch up in order to try to understand the various Asian societies, which, if Kishore Mahbubani’s recent FT column (and book) are to be believed, are now taking over the world.
In my own case, since my profession puts me in contact with many Asians, at least I can say that the vanished smattering of Greek that Dr. Chase once tried so earnestly to teach me has been replaced by a smattering of Japanese, learned, in part, with the help of my wife, who is a native speaker. She is even stricter with my Japanese pronunciation than Dr. Chase was with his Greek accent marks.
When I was much younger, I also took some beginners’ courses in Swahili, Farsi and Arabic, all of which, I am sorry to say, have long since gone the way of my Greek. I especially regret the Farsi and Arabic. Imagine how useful they would have been in connection with America’s hoped for oil empire. Perhaps Senator McCain, at least, should take some lessons.
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 3:52 pm | Report this commentAs the tennis match (Nadal v Belucci) in paris is suspended because of rain, I am back online, ON TOPIC now.
I believe BO is in no personal danger until his choice of running mate is known. But if BO becomes president and his VP is a popular white American (Romney or Edwards?) then BO should get into the habit of looking over his shoulder…
Posted by: J.J. | May 26th, 2008 at 4:14 pm | Report this commentSade. No sé mucho espanol, pero me acuerdo que el rey Carlos dijo a Chavez “porque no te callas”?
Posted by: J.J. | May 26th, 2008 at 4:25 pm | Report this commentAlgasema…you must read “Lavinia” it is Ursula Le Guin’s newest book! My girlfriends and I adore her…but after our discussion I called them last night and told them we read the book out of context!…they must also read The Aeneid before we meet!…there was some grousing…that silly common retort: “I do not have enough time”…so I told them to skip one latte morning with me and just do it!…you are right we (Americans) are a very uncivilized society and people.. civilized people in a country with so much wealth and waste do not let so many people go to bed hungry, especially children. I have a good and very talented friend who has written several very good books on how many millions people have been in prisons and lost the right to vote in America ..enough to aid President Bush win national elections…now he is in the midst of writing about hunger in America…it’s shameful…I dont care who Obama picks for Sec of State or VP …He will drive the policies and the US domestic agenda will be just as important and it is entwined with our foreign polices…it is a great pity there is little to nothing written on how much the War of Iraq has set back the US domestic agenda and how so many children are paying the price …
Posted by: Lisa-Helene Lawson | May 26th, 2008 at 5:10 pm | Report this commentJ.J., Obama would never pick Romney, since Romney is a Republican. True, there has been some speculation about Obama’s picking Hagel, who is also a Republican, but this would be extremely unusual, and only because Hagel is also an Iraq war critic.
On the safety issue, this is digressing somewhat (as if classical Greek textbooks were not already a digression), but I remember the tremendous shock the evening when the news of Martin Luther King’s assassination came out. It is difficult to imagine now how controversial he was during his lifetime. Many whites, and not only in the South, reacted to King’s message of equality and hope with a rage that would have made the recent reaction to Jeremiah Wright’s lunacy seem almost friendly by comparison. Barack Obama needs to look over his shoulder no matter whom he picks for VP.
Lisa-Helene, I can understand that your friends may find the Aeneid tougher going than having a latte, but, if they follow your advice, they will certainly never regret it, (and they can still have their latte anyway - this is not an either/or proposition). Joseph Stiglitz, in his new book “The Trillion Dollar War”, has tried to quantify how much America has lost by not using the money spent in Iraq for domestic programs, but, as he indicates himself, it is impossible to estimate the full amount of the damage this war has caused (except to the oil and defense industries) because it is so enormous.
As for the attitudes of many Americans toward the less fortunate in our society, whether hungry children, immigrants risking death at the border to try to save their families from starving, elderly people without support, or victims of slick mortgage lenders about to lose their homes, Vergil’s characterization of Juno may be the best description: “saeva (ae)” - “cruel”.
Posted by: algasema | May 26th, 2008 at 8:05 pm | Report this commentMcCain says he dumped Rev. Hagee but his likely Secretary of State (as referred to in Mr. Rachman’s above article), is to headline Hagee’s upcoming summit:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/joseph-lieberman-to-headl_b_103624.html
Is McCain going to dump Lieberman?!
P
Posted by: Pacifist | May 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am | Report this commentoy vey Pacifist after all the above weren’t you inclined to say “Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur!”?
Posted by: Felix Drost | May 28th, 2008 at 11:12 am | Report this comment